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Saturday, April 13, 2024

Does Hillary have a Monika motor driving her to be the boss of Bill?

I knew about Hillary's tornado ambition, not only from press accounts but from an inside source. I knew she sometime put her personal goals before what was best for the Democratic Party. But as long as her tornado stayed in the remote prairie I gave her a pass.

But this tornado started ripping apart people's houses. Because of this I will vote for Obama in Massachusetts. Now I am turning my shrink's eyes* from Bush to the Clintons because I want to understand why she'd let he campaign go so negative. What I see isn't as noxious as Bush's personality disorder, but we shouldn't ignore possible negative reasons the wife of a serial philanderer stands by her man.


I knew about Hillary’s tornado ambition, not only from press accounts but from an inside source. I knew she sometime put her personal goals before what was best for the Democratic Party. But as long as her tornado stayed in the remote prairie I gave her a pass.

But this tornado started ripping apart people’s houses. Because of this I will vote for Obama in Massachusetts. Now I am turning my shrink’s eyes* from Bush to the Clintons because I want to understand why she’d let he campaign go so negative. What I see isn’t as noxious as Bush’s personality disorder, but we shouldn’t ignore possible negative reasons the wife of a serial philanderer stands by her man.

After years of screwing around and some publicized bimbo eruptions, one infidelity blasted out of secrecy, going from Matt Drudge’s website to 24/7 worldwide news coverage as fast as Mt. Saint Helens dust hit the stratosphere.

For the average woman this would be the equivalent of after years of behind the back whispers and snickers having her middle aged husband caught having sex with a young high school teacher:

  • at the senior prom
  • in the school auditorium
  • with his own wife and daughter watching
  • on stage
  • on the sofa
  • of the set for "Our Town"
  • when someone raised the curtain
  • and turned on the spotlights.

The mainstream and liberal press haven’t paid much attention to this, perhaps offering a nod and a wink at times. Still considering the psychological analysis George W. Bush has been undergoing, the most critical comments I’ve heard have been about their’s being a marriage of convenience.

Kinder pundits have called it a "unique relationship", almost suggesting that this might be something you’d want to emulate.

If lack of courtesy in this campaign were a crime, we’d call in the CSI’s (Clinton scene investigators). Hillary Clinton, having showed us that the Devil can wear pants suits this week, has given some clues as to the motives for her and Bill’s criminal discourtesy.

I think Hillary has an unconscious, or barely conscious, reason for wanting so desperately to be president. It is almost too obvious to state when put in the context of what I’ve written so far. It can be summed up in a word: revenge.

As a senator she is one of a hundred. She is best known for having been the wife of Bill Clinton.

Her husband is one of three living ex-presidents. He is as famous as she is and to many is beloved despite his having nearly destroyed the good he did as president by his affair.

Her husband is as big a celebrity as any movie star, who also travels with an entourage that includes Secret Service agents. His speaking engagements have made him by far the primary income provider of the family.

What’s a wife to do for vengeance short of a multi-million dollar divorce that would make her an unmarried Senator who the snickering class would still whisper about behind her back?

Or (dear reader, please don’t chortle) she could deny him sex.

So Hillary runs for president so she can become the boss of Bill and takes the limelight away from him.

And what does Bill do?

His recent behavior has set her campaign back.

Whether he is consciously or unconsciously trying to thwart his wife’s revenge or not remains to be seen. This CSI is waiting for more evidence on that.



Ironically, the ten year anniversary of Drudge’s revelation was January 17th (see historic story
) and it passed by with only minor fuss, including a mea culpa from Chris Kelly who tried to cover it up, on Huffington Post, a website which like Capitol Hill Blue is an heir to what Matt Drudge and Monica Lewenski started.


* Hal Brown is a clinical social worker who has been a psychotherapist for 36 years.

51 thoughts on “Does Hillary have a Monika motor driving her to be the boss of Bill?”

  1. Jay Spaan Sr:

    Again, I shouldn’t have started this column with the first two paragraphs and my original title was misleading. My own error in switching from one focus to another got people commenting on two different topics.

    I know politicians are very ambitious but I found the attacks against Obama, including Hillary’s reaction to the comments by the head of BET, lacking in class. That’s what got me to thinking whether there were some underlying motivations leading her to unwisely put good manners aside in her push to be president.

    The thread is about Hillary’s reaction to Bill’s affairs.

    I agree with you when you say:

    "I think she
    handled it with dignity and grace, and she proved she has the maturity,
    rationality and just plain grit to confront a very difficult situation
    very well."

    This doesn’t mean she doesn’t have unconsious or unstated motivations which are, while fully understandable, very human and justifiable, less "politically correct".

  2. Mr. Brown it is not my intention to be rude to anyone. I like most of your columns, but your name is up there on the banner just like Doug. And like Hillary, that makes you public, and you are gonna take a shot or two.

    My personal opinion; Americans do not base their vote primarily on qualification. If we did, our choices for Democrat would be Biden and Richardson. Repulicans would have just, well, Ron Paul. And I like Mr. Paul a lot. My opinion though.

    Is this thread about runaway ambition? Hillary is ambitious. Would one want a Leader not to be? But I think her ambition also includes a deep conviction she can help and change America for the better; and she is acutely aware of the possibility of this historic event, and the results of failure.

    Has this “tornado” been destructive and ruined lives? Give me a break. Powerful people play powerful games. You gotta put on your Big Boy Pants. Every time Bill (speaking for Hillary) says Obama has no experience, Obama pulls out the black card and says “no fair”. This is not affirmative action, it’s the highest office in the land.

    Is this thread about Hillary’s reaction to Bill’s affairs? I think she handled it with dignity and grace, and she proved she has the maturity, rationality and just plain grit to confront a very difficult situation very well.

    Is this thread about why you are voting for Obama? Mr. Brown you can make your decision on who you vote for, for any reason you want. I won’t vote for someone who has a resume you can print on a business card. Even if he has good speech writers and he’s black. Guess I ain’t PC.

  3. Well Ann, I’ve gotta go with your analysis. Bill and Hill are about the two most competitive souls you’ll ever run across. They’ve form a tag team to take on all comers. A wrestle-royal as they call it in Arkansas. (Maybe that’s rassle royal!)

  4. AnnS: I have nothing to argue with your historically accurate description of a certain kind of marriage. However I wrote about one particular unique marriage and a never before public exposure of a president’s Oval Office affair, leading to an impeachment, and the wife who foregave him then running for president herself.

    There has been nothing in history remotely similar.

    As I wrote before, I’ve been a psychotherapist and marriage counselor for getting close to four decades, and I have seen up close and personal every kind of marriage you could image.

    Sherry: I don’t think the Ralph Keyes article (link is here)
    is applicable. His title about not putting candidates on the couch I disagree with, but the attempt by mental health professionals to dispassionately analyze their psychology isn’t even part of the article.

    I certainly agree with that mental health professionals who write about politicians shouldn’t use terms like crazy or nuts, but the people the author quotes aren’t even therapists.

    I am not saying Hillary Clinton is mentally unfit for office. How many times do I have to repeat that?

    I am not saying I am choosing Obama over her in the priimary because she is bent on revenge. If you read my comments to the column you’ll see I have clarified that even if conscious or unconscious revenge is a motive, she isn’t "bent" on it. It would just be an element of her motivation. I believe no matter what underlying motivations she has, primarily she wants to be president for the noble reasons she states.

    I explained the reasons for my decision of Obama over Clinton in my first two paragraphs.  I wish I had left that out because it has persisted in side tracking the comment. The gist of the column was speculation about some of what drives her psychologically.

  5. Hal,
    I am perplexed you are choosing not to vote for Hillary because you think she is bent on revenge. I must admit for all the reasons I have heard about why Hillary wants to be POTUS, this is a first.

    If you were in a court of law, opposing counsel may have your comments stricken, for assuming facts not in evidence.

    Christian Science Monitor has a great article “Don’t Put Public Figures on the Couch” by Ralph Keyes. Check it out.
    It’s a good read.

  6. (1) Accept that not everyone sees a marraige as “THE” source of fulfillment for their need for intimacy. FDR and Eleanor sure didn’t. For both, their closest relationships were outside the marriage.

    (2) Often the marriage is a business partnership to achieve professional, financial and social goals. Again, see FDR and the oh-so-dreadful Eleanor. (Love him, loathe her.)

    It is only in the last 60-70 years that this idea of the spouse as the soul-mate and source of the deepest intimacy has arisen. If you had spouted that to someone of any class in the 18th or 19th centuries and earlier, they would have thought you bonkers. Until the early 1930s, marriage was a business arrangement to maintain the household and the finances, to raise the children and maintain their position in the society with both spouses having significant emotional involvement with others outside the marriage. If the couple was lucky, there was love but not the kind of emotional dependence and intermeshing that is demanded today.

  7. Sherry,

    When I get around to analyzing Barak Obama I’ll give my opinions on these questions. Again, the topic is Hillary Clinton, not Obama, and I am disappointed by how difficult it seems for intelligent posters to keep on one topic. Please, everyone, stop asking questions about Obama on this thread. The subject of the column is complex enough without getting sidetracked.

    I know of a few example of the kinds of marriage you describe, as well as of women who put up with this for a period of time before they grew in self-confidence and divorced their husband, often getting 50% of his worth, sometimes many millions, in the settlement.

    Again, we don’t know Hillary’s true motivations for staying with Bill. She may be a truly forgiving person deeply in love with him and accepting of his needs for extramarital flings. Maybe she doesn’t desire sexual intimacy in their marriage. She may not even have felt wounded by his infidelities and his public humiliation, although I find that difficult to believe.

    However, she may have been deeply hurt by him, harbor profound resentment, and have an element of her psyche driving her to be president for the reasons I laid out. I’m not saying this, if true, is even a particularly significant reason measured against wanting to bring change after two egregious terms of Geroge W. Bush.



  8. And you all have a habit of ‘over-analyzing.’ When all you have is a hammer…..

    (1) No – a politician’s marriage is not a matter of public interest. I don’t care if they have sex with a sheep so long as the sheep consents IF they do the job for which they are hired.

    (2) This ‘unique’ marriage stuff is just fluff and nonsense. Same can be said of:

    Teddy and Edith Roosevelt (she doted on him but he never got over his first wife, Edith was not central to his life, and he went his own way)

    Woodrow and Edith Wilson (she controlled him in office)

    Warren and Florence Harding (she had known for years and years about his fooling around on the side)

    Franklin and Eleanor Roosevelt (Lucy? Margaret? Princess Marthe? Missy? Eleanor and her girlfriends like Lorena? Now THAT was a ‘unique’ marriage that stayed together for political purposes.)

    Diwght and Mamie Eisenhower (Kay? Every military officer down to captain knew about that affair which meant pretty much everyone in the circle of the Allies and their wives at home.)

    Jack and Jacqueline Kennedy (the list would be too long)

    Lyndon and Lady Bird Johnson (Yes, him too. His mistress of many years lived in Middleburg VA and died in the early 1990’s.)

    Reagan? A Hollywood actor?? Line up the starlets.

    BTW, your “she is doing it for revenge” is way off base. Those 2 are an early-edition of the quintessential power couple. They have been competing against each other even while helping each other ever since they hooked up.

    Law degree: check

    Upper level legal jobs: check (Her as a partner in the largest firm, him teaching law)

    Who earns the most: First her supporting them while he climbed the political ladder, then him (presidency), then her until his speaking engagements kicked in……

    Who has the most power and prestige: First her in the law firm while he was only a law professor, then him as govenor, then her when he was out of office, then him up through the presidency, then her as an office-holder and him as an ex-pres……..

    It is a competiton of matching each other in achievements while co-operating to help each other succeed. Neither can let the other have more success – it has to be equal or the balance of power in the marriage is disrupted.

  9. Hal,
    “but we shouldn’t ignore possible negative reasons
    the wife of a serial philanderer stands by her man”

    We don’t know the reasons. We never will. I have known women who stuck by their philandering husbands.
    I will never forget when I was in the corporate world there was a man who had a different woman in every city. He even had one he had been with on a regular basis for years, but even she knew she had to share.
    One day the wife was with him as we were having cocktails.
    Wife looked at the ladies before her, smiled and said, “Don’t be embarassed. As long as he hands me his check and puts water in my pool, I don’t care who he sleeps with”.
    Hal. It’s hard to imagine, but not every marriage is all that intimate on either an emotional or sexual level.
    I know. I know. The therapist wants to know.
    Since you are voting for Obama have you delved into his psyche in terms of growing up fatherless, with such vastly different cultures in his parentage?
    Does that matter to you?
    Has he ever cheated on Michelle and if he has, does it matter?

  10. “He will not divide the party because those who supported Edwards will readily come to support him.”

    Dream ON!!! I’ll stay home and not vote (first time in over 30 years)before I vote for a University of Chicago law School prof where they have to swear allegience to the free-market theories of Friedman to get hire! In addition your darling ineperienced Senator made it very cclear at the outset that he did not want the support of anyone over 45 – so screw him.

    And Clinton is NOT an option.

    “He is qualified to be president because he is every bit as smart, savvy, and capable of holding the highest office in the land”

    Based on WHAT??

    Fiddling around with some minor legislation in one of the least powerful state legislatures having been elected from a very safe district?

    Teaching part-time at the Univ of Chicago Law School – home of the free-market theories of law? (I’m married to a U of C Law School grad – they give good speeches, live in a world of general theories and couldn’t implement setting up a lemonade stand. BTW, my spouse says the same thing.)

    Community organization work? (Snicker…..)

    Finding his new office in the US Senate Building? He wasn’t there long enough to have even figured out the tunnel system or where all the bathrooms are let alone actually doing anything with legislation before he announced he was fit to run the country.

    Plagarizing all of Edward’s policy proposals when he was finally pressed to say what he would do? (And still doing a sloppy job of plagaizing.)

    Ha ha haha…..

    And the Bubbas out there will not vote for him. Period.

  11. In view of the furor created in part by my title and first two paragraphs here and on Reader Rant, I have changed both as follows:

    The original (misleading) title: I was undecided about who to vote for betweean Clinton and Obama on Super Tuesday.

    I knew about Hillary’s tornado ambition, not only
    from press accounts but from an inside source. I knew she sometime put
    her personal goals before what was best for the Democratic Party. But
    as long as her tornado stayed in the remote prairie I gave her a pass.

    But this tornado started ripping apart people’s houses. Because of this I will vote for Obama in Massachusetts. Now I am turning my shrink’s eyes*
    from Bush to the Clintons because I want to understand why she’d let her
    campaign go so negative
    . What I see isn’t as noxious as Bush’s
    personality disorder, but we shouldn’t ignore possible negative reasons
    the wife of a serial philanderer stands by her man.

    Changes in italics.

  12. jay_spaan_sr,

    Please show all columnists and fellow posters the utmost courtesy. Save you sarcasm for the subjects of the columns and comments if that’s your feeling, not fellow posters.

    This admonition aside, you are correct that my title was misleading and didn’t convey the subject of the column. I have changed it.

    The reason I switched from being undecided to being a Super Tuesday Obama supporter is described only in the first two paragraphs. The rest of the column is speculation about her personality and possible unconscious reasons for seeming to want so desperately to be president.

    This is what I wrote on Reader Rant: I think Clinton, Edwards and
    Obama would all make excellent presidents and that for whatever her
    personality quirks, Hillary wouldn’t let them detract from governing
    with wisdom. I never wrote that getting revenge against Bill for "being
    the boss" of him (at least if he ever had a role in the administration,
    formal or informal) would make her less effective.

  13. Mr. Brown: I guess I don’t read so good. Lemme look at the title of your article.
    Undecided… Obama…
    wait lemme read paragraph two…
    “I am voting for Obama… Mass.”…
    I guess you are right. This column is about why you are voting for Obama; because Hillary is a revengeful B… that is looking to be Prez so she can nail Bill’s cajones to the Oval Office wall. My mistake.

    We should all quit writing about Mr. Brown’s candidate lack of qualifications and get back to why Mr. Brown is voting for him. Hillary should not be seeking office because she did not kill Bill.

    I, for one, will take his reasons under the utmost consideration. Thanks for the input, although i consider it shallow, Hal.

  14. Sherry,

    I am not comparing Bush to Hillary Clinton, but I believe it is important to understand the personalities of our candidates as well as possible before casting a vote.

    If the swing voters who elected him were smart enough and interested enough to analyze the psychology of George W. Bush before they voted perhaps they would have understood the ramifications of electing a pathological narcissist as president.

    I do not think Hillary and Bill Clinton’s marriage precludes Senator Clinton from being an excellent president. However, if we knew the reasons she stayed will Bill after Monica it would tell us a great deal about her personality.

    Of course what I wrote is speculation. I may be totally wrong when I suggest she might be consciously or unconsciously trying to exact a unique kind of revenge by becoming president. Even if it is true, I doubt this would effect her performance in office.

    This is not a discussion about Barak Obama, so please keep comments to the subject of the column.

  15. First off. I don’t give a care why Hill is still married to Bill. Quite honestly, it’s none of my business.
    The way the press is fawning over Obama just makes me absolutely sick.
    And yeah, if he is the nominee, I will vote GOP.
    I am perplexed that a man can give flowery speeches reminding me of MLK speeches and suddenly, he’s the man! I am just waiting for Obama to give his “I have a dream speech”. Perhaps Caroline Kennedy will think its original.

  16. I think the Repubs are salivating at the prospect of Obama as the Democratic candidate. They know that Billary knows how to fight dirty, and the last thing they want to do is battle against her/him. But they can’t wait to start blasting ads against Obama.

    Remember Harold Ford in Tennessee? You think they won’t do the same thing to Obama on a national level and then pretend they don’t mean what they’re really saying? And remember what Rush Limbaugh did to Chelsea? How much you want to bet he’s just waiting to turn himself loose on Obama’s two daughters with another “woof woof” comment like he did on Chelsea when she was 12.

    If Obama wins the nomination we’ll have at least another four years of Republican policy in the White House. Another four years of greedy bastards standing on our necks.

  17. Let’s face it. Hillary is far better equipped to be President. Obama’s flimsy background, lack of experience, show he is not prepared to be president, despite his oratory skills and so-called charisma. Neither the backing of the Kennedy’s or of others will sway me to vote for him. Hillary all the way!

  18. “Get used to it. It was here from the beginning and there is nothing to indicate it will go away with Obama. ”

    No. I like my forefathers before me can no longer stand by and take it in the rear.

    I realize there were many Americans in 1776 who advocated for working with the Monarchy of King George, but I sure am glad there are those who stood up for what they believed.

    Since Hal has repeatedly pointed us back to the subject throughout this thread, perhaps it is just as well to stick to the subject.

  19. Sorry pollchecker, I certainly did not mean to offend you. Although I am not sure where I said you didn’t have a right to say what you want. It was you who said my post was “inappropriate” thereby questioning my right to post my thoughts. You brought up Obama when you said he has a much better chance of uniting the two sides. I was simply following the thread. Who put you in charge of determining the appropriateness of posts anyway?

    What I meant by my reference to Limbaugh is that the right has so polluted the air with hatred for the Clintons, that people hate Hillary and they don’t even know why. One doesn’t even have to listen to Limbaugh to be influenced by him and other hate mongers. They have done a good job at making Hillary hating part of our culture.

    I am well aware that what I wrote about Obama is a hoax. I don’t need to go to a web cite to confirm that. You insult me by apparently thinking I believed it. My “quick acceptance of this garbage” now that really is insulting.

    My point is that when Obama supporters wistfully say he can unite the country, they are dreaming. I don’t ever expect the Limbaughs to ease up on trashing someone they see as the enemy, whether its Hillary or Obama. Politics is about partisanship and sometimes it is not very pretty. Get used to it. It was here from the beginning and there is nothing to indicate it will go away with Obama.

    For Hal, your credentials give you more credibility when you give an opinion. Many do not understand the tenative nature of it. They just assume you are the expert and adopt your conclusions without understanding the speculation involved.

  20. What I believe is that Obama has a much better chance of bringing together both sides than Billary does. But that is another thread.

  21. Hey, I’m a Scorpio too!

    You really don’t think that the pirahna will swarm on Obama for the next four years? I think the nastiness and mudslinging will only continue to escalate, no matter who wins the presidency. And if that person is Obama, god help us for what it will do for race relations in the US.

    I believe this because I truly believe that there are people whose prosperity depends upon bringing about the demise of the United States of America. And these people are smart. They’re not going to come right out and tell us what their goal is — no, instead they’ll pretend to be on our side, and stir the pot over false issues to divide and conquer us. These people have a vested interest in sowing distrust and alienation among us — and they do a damned good job!

  22. This is the problem with marriage in our culture: the words “for better or for worse, for richer or for poorer, in sickness and in health, ’til death do us part” have no meaning any more. No where in there does it say anything about not screwing around. But the wedding vows DO speak to standing by your partner for the rest of your life.

    I don’t really view philandering as the greatest of all transgressions in a marriage. I think a partner who is meanspirited, belligerant, emotionally inaccessible, or a tyrant who must always have his or her way would be much, much worse to live with.

    For me, the fact that Hillary stayed with Bill even after the tremendous humiliation both his poor choices and his enemies’ lust to make the most out of them inflicted on her, speaks to qualities within her that I admire.

    It’s always easy to pronounce that other people should divorce, but every divorce is a devastating personal failure for both partners (whether they know it or not). Divorcers are losers, and they inflict loss on their families and communities when they can’t stand by their choice in a partner.

    There are a lot of things I don’t like about the way Hillary is pursuing the presidency — but I think it’s ridiculous to fault her for not jumping out of her marriage. When Bill was still in the White House, friends bet me that she’d divorce him the minute he was out of office. I didn’t think she would. (And I hoped she wouldn’t.) Bill Clinton is a man of great huge faults, to be sure — but he’s also apparently a man of great, huge talents and abilities. She seems to have made out pretty good in the marriage department, given what she wants out of life.

    I can’t believe that anyone here would even consider voting either Democrat or Republican anyway — or for any independent with previous ties to either party. One of the biggest problems we face is out-of-control partisanship, and the only way we’re going to be able to solve that problem is to stop voting partisans into power. The primaries are sometimes entertaining, sometimes exasperating — but I’m waiting to see what (if anything) we get in the way of independents. A vote for either a Republican or a Democrat is a vote for more of the same.

  23. On the last few comments:

    I’m glad to have another therapist commenting here. I hope Mary Cali continues to offer her own clinical perspective.

    In the first 18 years of my career working at a mental health center I had a very diverse caseload including some couples; but in the last 18 years in private practice half of my time was spent doing marriage counseling. In many instances the goal was to help couples heal after one of them had an affair. I believe I assisted many couples in this regard.

    This being said in my own defense, it is reasonable for mental health experts to speculate about a politician’s psychological motivations. I think most people understand we do this from a distance and our conclusions are always tentative and open to change as we get new information.

    Politician’s marriages ceased to be their own businesses when they became both tools to garner votes and when they became fodder for the infotainment that often passes for news. The marriages shouldn’t concern us unless they seem to influence the politician’s behavior and decision making, particularly in a negative way.

    I wrote that

    I think Hillary has an unconscious, or barely conscious, reason for
    wanting so desperately to be president. It is almost too obvious to
    state when put in the context of what I’ve written so far. It can be
    summed up in a word: revenge.

    I don’t mean to imply that this is her only reason. She has always been a political animal like her husband and who knows, had he been content to be a house husband she might have run for governor of Arkansas and ended up as president.

    As for Jackie Kennedy, she never went into politics and her husband’s infidelities never became banner headlines, let alone led to an impeachment. We can never know what her reaction to this would have been.

    Sandy: I think that Bush has taken America so far to the right in the ways you describe plus others (how right can creating an imperial presidency be?) that a change to a Democratic Party government will only seem like a polar oposite on the far left. In fact, it will move the country back to the middle.

    Just a note to waglendye, instead of watching the president I watched the local selectmans meeting on cable, and I have to say from what I read about the speech it was more interesting. Those who decided to watch the speech so they could write about it, like Doug Thomson and The New York Times (here) editors confirm this about Bush’s speech.


  24. “Those who say they cannot vote for Billary because they can’t stand the bad jokes and polititical division are being very unrealistic and letting Limbaugh et al decide their vote. ”

    Please don’t be naive and insulting. Rush Limbaugh does not have anything to do with how I feel about Billary!

    “According to rightwing propaganda, he is a Muslim who doesn’t salute the flag and swears on the Koran.”

    This is a hoax. Here is the link that tells the truth.

    Perhaps you’re quick acceptance of the garbage that floats aroung the internet shows where you are at.

    “You are living in a dreamworld, if you think that Obama can unite the country.”


    “The righties will be doing everything they can to keep the country from uniting behind his left leaning policies.”


    The Billary Road to Republican Victory

    Besides this is a thread about Why Hillary is running. So quite frankly your post is inappropriate. And as far as I can tell, as long as this is a free country, I am allowed to voice my opionion and write what I believe.

    I suggest you do a bit more research before attacking someone who apparently much more informed than you are and who is exercising their right as a concerned citizen.

  25. Those who say they cannot vote for Billary because they can’t stand the bad jokes and polititical division are being very unrealistic and letting Limbaugh et al decide their vote. Do you think partisanship is going to end should Obama become president? Get real, partisanship is based on policy differences not personalities. The right is already making up bad jokes about Obama. According to rightwing propaganda, he is a Muslim who doesn’t salute the
    flag and swears on the Koran. You are living in a dreamworld, if you think that Obama can unite the country.
    The righties will be doing everything they can to keep the country from uniting behind his left leaning policies.
    Get used to the “barking” it is part of our representative democracy.

  26. Ok, there are women who believe in the Christian priniciple of forgiveness. Since we all make mistakes, perhaps it is why some marriages endure over the decades. Some people do not believe in forgiveness. To them, certain things cannot be forgiven.

    But when one spouse appears to commits the same transgression over and over again, it has to make some people, even their closest friends, wonder why the other spouse chooses to stay together.

    Hal, you actually do make a valid point. I prefer to think that Hillary stays with Bill for 2 reasons: 1)she loves him despite his transgressions 2)she’s not willing to give her adversaries the pleasure of being right. Hillary is a SCORPIO and they are relentless and proud creatures. She has proven this to be true.

    Perhaps she has stayed with Bill to further her own career. Perhaps her being president is the ultimate revenge. But for a scorpio, I think being the first woman president and perhaps the only husband/wife team to sit in the oval office, is history making that may never be replaced.

    That is sufficent to itself for Hillary to stay with Bill and run.

    However, I repeat, I will not vote for Billary! I know a lot of people who feel the same. I do not believe that She can win over a RED state in the final election! She cannot bring the 2 parties together. Her winning the presidency will not bring the country together. It will only keep us divided for 4 more years. And I cannot endure another 4 more years of bad jokes and politicos barking at each other from across the aisles.

  27. I don’t decide who to vote for until election day because so many things can happen in the next week pro or con for each candidate. I did not watch the president’s speech last night for the first time since I was a kid (now 49) and that tells you how sad things are today. He uses the same old words over & over again about how he’s making the world safer and it makes me want to throw up.

  28. Like Hal, I too am a clinical social worker. I know how specualtive some in the field can be. Hal throws out that Hillary’s motive for running is revenge offering no evidence. Weak specualtion is something that happens all too often in the field. Hal totally overlooks Hillary’s life time interest in policy and politics before she even met Bill.

    There is no denying that the Clintons have a “different” marriage. We all have unique marriages, some more unique than others. The Clintons marriage is their own business.
    I was very unhappy about Bill’s misbehavior, thinking how stupid. I share some of the concerns written here and I do wish I had another choice.

    Voting for a Republican is unthinkable because of policy differences and the way they have governed over the past 7 years. Voting for Obama is out because of a lack of experience. The country has alot of problems. As much as we deplore those who have been around the beltway, these times require seasoned knowledge.

    An inexperienced and young JFK brought us the disasterous Bay of Pigs, that I think a more seasoned Nixon would not have attempted. JFK also led us down the slippery slope of Vietnam. I cannot vote for anyone with so much to learn as Obama. Although a quick learner I am sure, there is too much at stake to wait while he get his education.

  29. Do we need to use insults for our commentators? Why is it necessary to get to the level that this great debate has brought to CHB. Sadly, it is very familiar to me as I read this crap everyday on other forums.

    Anyone who believes Bill Clinton was a good President has not read much about his dealings with Communist China. The problem is our understanding of the Bush Administration and the lies and manipulations that will return the the Democrats to power. Apparently neither party knows right from wrong and many of us can see a glimmer of honesty with Obama. Even a spark is better than what we have at this time.

    The GOP has self destructed under the weight of one of the most evil men we ever elected. We saw them use God and Jesus Christ to sell their agenda which may be the lowest form of government ever seen in America. Our history of equality is shaky enough but if we don’t clean out the corruption, we will lose our Constitution which is the law of the land.

    It is the American way to go from one extreme to the other. I welcome the diversity that Obama brings and hope it will erase the horrors of the religious right in their trying to make women, gays and terminal patients into 3rd rate citizens. The gay bashing and anti-Semitism is alive on the religious forums and apparently there are some here who would like to express their hatred for half the American people.

    I am not forcing equality but merely pointing out the lack of it. Why this division has morphed into the GOP can only be explained by the rise of the religious right in the party. They bring with it the dream of moral laws generated by our government. They do not know right from wrong and will never stop until it is forced on all of us. You and your holy President have destroyed our American culture and hopefully we will run you out of our government until you grow up.

  30. JavaJohn Is Right. And Hal; you are so out of line. I love reading your and Doug’s stuff, but you both seem to have major problems with women, sex and forgivness. It’s getting “public bathroom toe-tapping creepy” too. You two seem to have a very personal issue with any woman that doesn’t stomp on her husband like a piss-ant for cheating.

    Obama has proven he has had his hand out from the beginning of his short career. He has only been a two-bit player so far, but has willingly accepted every bribe and scheme, making it known he is ready for the big-time graft. Look, I loved listening to JFK, but the real facts are he won his election using mafia ties, his family made their empire from illegal booze and do we forget Teddy and the MURDERED woman? How about the cousin accused of raping the girl on the beach? Bobby was big time into McCarthey-type congressional hearings until the mafia pissed him off enough to talk JFK into quitting his whoring and drugs and let him go after the people JFK owed favors to.
    JFK was a great young President, even with all his faults. He would have been even better if he had lived. Robert would have proven to be the greatest President of our time, and many lifetimes to come. But they had the background to know and work the corruption not for their profit, but to better America. I remember JFK, and Obama is NO JFK. He will be a puppet for Teddy and the rest; and crawl across the floor for the spare-change they throw.

    Hal, I have a question for you. You have such a hard-on against Hillary for forgiving and respecting Bill after his past sex problems. Do you think Jackie Kennedy was a huge turd as well? I’m not a shrink, but this “woman’s revenge, I’ll make him suffer syndrome” and “Any woman who doesn’t cut off her man’s dick for cheating is no better than a whimpy doormat” is a little too Jimmy Swaggart for me.

    Bill Clinton was a pretty damn good Prez, in my limited opinion. And you need to give us more than your personal problems with cheating men and the women that love them. Or maybe you should take your problems to Jerry Springer, not CHB.

  31. Janet..I too will definitly vote for a Democrat. However…my sister who was, and still is very much for Hillary says she will not vote for Obama, and may choose Romney come Nov. IF those are who she has to choose between. “Romney knows about business and finances” I found this comment unbelievable because, just last Fri., she said “It’s hard for me to believe anyone would even think about voting for a Republican this time”. Then, 2 hours ago when she called and told me this, I ask her
    “what in the hell has happened to change your mind?” Her answer: “The television idiots have done nothing but malign Hillary, ignored Edwards and everyone else! So, I’ve written all of them telling them what I think and I’m not going to watch any of them.” I told her to get a grip and calm down that its been this way for months, well, she said…Right now,I am so disgusted that I’m really seriously thinking of voting for Romney…they don’t report the news, they make it up, and I am sick of it” All this from a polite soft spoken lady who thought what Bill Clinton did was a dispicable disgrace yet would relish the chance of seeing him help Hillary run the nation. Oh by the way, she went from being “well-off” financially to “wealthy” during the Clinton years.

  32. JavaJohn,

    Like Janet, I anticipate an amazing showing by Obama on Super Tuesday which may or may not surprise the pundits depending on what the polls show leading up to Feb. 5th.

    I do not think those of use who were inspired by Obama’s two most recent major speeches, which I trust you listened to or read, are suckers. There is substance in those words.

    He is qualified to be president because he is every bit as smart, savvy, and capable of holding the highest office in the land as Hillary (and Bill) Clinton, but isn’t (excuse the dual meaning) wedded to the old way of doing things. It isn’t merely that he is advocating the right kind of change, but he is planning to make it happen in new ways.

    He will not divide the party because those who supported Edwards will readily come to support him. I have heard that those who support Clinton now skew to the older white female more educated group. If this is correct and if they are anything like my friends in that category who have switched, they will see that Obama speaks for them more than Hillary does.

    Not only that, the subject of my column will come into play as this group looks at her relationship with her husband and realizes just how uneasy it makes them feel.

    If Obama wins big on Feb. 5th Clinton will have a rough time garnering enough delegates to win the nomination short of a brokered convention. I would expect her to continue through a few more primaries after that, but quits when it is clear from polling that her chances of winning are slim.

    Then I expect her to play the gracious loser and focus on beating whoever the Republican candidate is. She knows that as a senator under a Democratic administration she can make major contributions in turning the country around. She has to work with fellow Democrats in Congress and would be foolish to anger them.

    Meanwhile, if Bill Clinton hasn’t totally alienated Obama, look for him to become one of the most politically acitve former presidents in history.

    Prediction: My odds on a Clinton separation should she loose the election are one in three. It will be a test of their love for each other if they no longer have to stay together for appearances sake. If they separate I expect a formal divorce before she runs for the Senate again. New Yorkers could care less whether or not their candidates are divorced.


  33. I want Edwards to be President…as much as others want Paul and wanted Kucinich. None of these men will ever be president and for the same reason. The media decided months ago that Obama would win and barring some unforseen disaster, he will be. I do not have a worry that Obama can in anyway be as catastrophic as Bush has been, but I am sickened that the media …nothing more than billion $$$ corporations…have blatently used the air waves to unfairly skew this election and once again been allowed to make up American minds. As I’ve said before..”There Oughta Be a Law”…one thats enforcable and enforced!!!

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