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Wednesday, April 24, 2024

Obama’s anger with Republicans boils over

President Obama: Glum's the word (Reuters)

Did a frustrated President Barack Obama storm out of an acrimonious meeting on the debt limit crisis with Congressional leaders Thursday?

Depends on how you look at it.

Bombastic Virginia Congressman Eric Cantor — who walked out on the budget talks led by Vice President Joe Biden earlier this year — claims the President got pissed, declared “enough’s enough” and ended the session.

“He said he had sat here long enough,” Cantor claimed. “No other President, Ronald Reagan, wouldn’t sit here like this.”

Democrats claim Cantor exaggerated. Obama, they said, simply made some emotional remarks about Republican intransigence and retreated to the Oval Office.

Whatever happened, Obama’s anger at Republicans surfaced and illustrates the tense level of talks that appear to be going nowhere.

To make matters worse, the credit rating service Moody’s warned Thursday that America could lose its top credit rating if an agreement to increase the debt limit is not reached before the Aug. 2 deadline.  That news sent U.S. dollar prices plummeting on the world market and Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke said the American economy faces another recession if the matter is not resolved.


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65 thoughts on “Obama’s anger with Republicans boils over”

  1. More Kabuki Theater so the peons will believe there was actually a disagreement as a result of one party putting forth the effort to represent the “people’s” best interests.


    I know those of you who visit this site understand the reality of the situation.

    Obama and Cantor should win Oscar’s I guess.

    It will surely get the partisan-sports-mentality of the unwashed masses into full force. Meanwhile, the economy continues to be suppressed and right now, somewhere in the US, children are going hungry.

    The most prosperous nation on earth and children go hungry and veterans go homeless?


    The money system is corrupt.
    The money system is corrupt.
    I meant to say it twice.
    ALL of our problems come back to the fact we are NOT in control of our financial situation.
    We (as a nation) do not control the printing of our money.

    Instead, we let a FOREIGN entity print money at will and loan it back to us (our money) loaned back to us WITH INTEREST.

    Those who could change this allow it to continue.
    Are the paid off?

    Why is this allowed to continue?

    Obama and Cantor are BOTH aware of the US money situation and instead of curing the disease, the (and all of the other politicians) try to mask the symptoms.

    Kabuki Theater for the masses.

    I wonder if Obama and Cantor will enjoy a round of golf at the club later and maybe have a drink in the lounge?

    One thing is for sure … the debt problem will not be fixed and the disease will not be cured……… intention.

    If Obama and Cantor ever (yes, I know it’ll never happen) were to discuss ending ALL foreign aid to every nation, reigning in military spending AND the possibility of “interest-free” US currency backed by something of value, THEN (and only then) would this cure the disease.

    Yep, Kabuki Theater…..but it would sell newspapers (provided people read them).

    • I’d give them all the Fickle Finger of Fate Eve, sans an Oscar,
      but they’ve already got it pointing at us..Rats !

  2. Well Carl, as I stated when you first revealed your voting for Obama, I was literally blown away by that admission. I didn’t bring up the idiot debate, I just added my two cents.

    Independents are any thing but…They’re just no loyal to any givern party, but from all historical indications, they vote for one of the two. Not very independent, is it?

    I voted for Bob Barr.

    Maybe if all the people that want to vote for some one like Paul, but feel they can’t because he has no chance to win, would actually find the balls to do so, then the self-fulfilling prophecy would cease to be so.

    If you believe in some thing, the lesser of two evils is not an option.

  3. I didn’t seek out this site to destroy it or trampled upon it. I came upon this site by accident. I was looking for info on Eric Cantor and found your site.

    I may not agree with all of the views here but I know how to conduct myself in someone else’ house. Nevertheless, I found an interesting article and thought I’d share it here.

    IT’S OFFICIAL: The Whole World Thinks Republicans Are Dangerous Maniacs Threatening Everyone

        • Yeah… and they’ve been watching the madness of the US spending the entire planet into oblivion for quite some time now.

          Do you actually have any idea of how the global monetary scheme works?

          • Sweat and only sweat creates prosperity.
            Air conditioned key stroking has been allowed to steal it ?

            As a favor Al since my grasp on the whole picture is tenuous at best, could you please give me a short pointed run down on how deep runs the tap root of our tree of woe ?..

            • It’s all gamblin’, my man, gamblin’. When the game ends, only one can have all the chips.

              Inconveniently, an economy doesn’t work when only one (or a few) has got all the chips.

              Total bummer when that happens!

            • Mornin’ Bryan –

              Sweat equity… if only it were that simple. Here’s a little article on the debt situation in 2007, which must be at least 10% worse by now.
              Total (Fed, State, Individual) US debt of $53T and counting, not including entitlement promises. The article also addresses logtroll’s post below, but makes the distinction between “honest” wealth and what we’ve come to experience from our banker-controlled, debt-promoting Federal govt.


              • Thanks Almandine for the link material. Good visual stats along with an explanation. It also demonstrates what globalism is all about; I.E., a great leveling of wages worldwide along with the wealth of the many migrating into the hands of the few.

                As the net incomes of Asians et. al. third world countries rise, so too our wages are declining as well as Europe. All the action for growing economies is within “Chindia”; ie., China and India along with Malaysia on the rise too.

                There’s also a deadly shift relative to the planet’s well-benig in terms of the rabid demand for commodities, as the easy to exploit resources dwindle which is linked to the disease of rabid consumerism which is marketed worldwide without any thought concerning this particular aspect. Americans as well as Western Europeans have been able to exploit and enjoy the sweet spot of easy commodity acquistion whereas these latecomers will have to pay dearly to emulate our now fading paradigm. So too they will fade as things become evermore desperate concerning this resource issue with fresh potable water being the most important, not only for consumption, but manufacturing purposes. This will unequivocally precipitate resource wars.

                Carl Nemo **==

  4. Remember those Irish who denounced their RC religion etc. and became Anglcans were able to get soup from the British lairds. Those “Soupers'” were my grammas mortal enemies.

    • Thanks jants64 for your comments about “Souperism”. Rest assured though that througout history there have been those that will sell out their principles, religious or otherwise in order to eat. Only the stalwart and extremely proud will stand up to tyranny whether it be religious, political or a mix of the two as during the “The Irish Famine” in lieu of starvation.

      I salute those men and women for all time and places who would rather die then give into statist or religious thugs with an agenda. The ‘crisis time’ may come for this nation where people will have to face up to “the man” or lose their precious freedom forever. If America goes down then the world will enter an age of darkness in terms of a place where there’s hope to find freedom, justice and the pursuit of happiness for all. Evil men and women elected to our highest office are selling us all out for a few dollars, euros, shekels or yuan more on a daily basis. Believe it…! : |

      Carl Nemo **==

        • Thank Almandine. All I can say is the production is spot-on and the accompanying music by Adele singing “Rolling in the Deep” which is one of my favorite workout tunes leaves one hushed.

          I urge all those that frequent this site to watch Almandine’s supplied video production and to hopefully get the message concerning urgency.

          Even if this current budget debacle passes us by with minimal “real time” impact on our socity, the ‘big enchilada’ of default is coming, like it or not. First the Eurozone will fall, then the U.S. where the heart of this financial beast lies. Believe it…!

          As a bonus heres a direct link to “Rolling in the Deep” by Adele. : )

          The question is: Do we have the necessary “fire in our hearts” to save our nation from criminally disposed usurpers who would see us all as desperate slaves on their global plantation…?! / : |

          Carl Nemo **==

          • “Thank Almandine” …extract from post opening

            should read:

            Thanks Almandine.

            Not only thanks from me personally, but we should all give thanks that he posted such a powerful vidclip that nails down our current plight relative the ilk we now have for our government and the evil, well-crafted plans they have for our nation.

            My apologies for the opening “brain fart”. : (

            Carl Nemo **==

  5. I was most interested in thinking about the quoted choice of words I have seen elsewhere.

    “Don’t call my bluff.”

    Curious and not exactly slick. If anything comes out of this latest crisis, it will be another mutli thousand page bill that nobody read. The debt will continue to grow, someone will be blamed, and their lives will remain unchanged.

  6. Obama should cut all federal spending in GOP districts… starting with Cantor’s. That should balance the budget in no time.

    Let the GOP explain to their constituents what a good thing they did cutting spending.

  7. President Obama didnot walk out of the room. Eric Cantor LIED, but believe whatever you want to.The meeting was over. Please, it’s not in President Obama’s nature to just walk out. He’s very well disciplined. Eric Cantor exhibted juvenile behavior by disrespectfully interrupting the President 3 times. The guy has no class and no scruples.

    • Rest assured SG2 that none of my posts here or anyone else’s from what I can glean from their writings are giving the likes of Eric Cantor a free pass.

      To me and no doubt others, they are all cut from the same rotten cloth, regardless of party affiliation; I.E., crimpols to the core…! / : |

      Carl Nemo **==

      • You’re not gonna make any points with SG2 that way, Carl… just roll your pointer over the name and click.

        • Thanks Almandine for the heads up. At least it isn’t a link to some SPAMSTER. I should make it a habit to see if a handle is ‘hot’…no? : ))


          They need to check CHB content more often and realize we don’t take prisoners here. We’re equal opportunity crimpol abusers… : |

          Carl Nemo **==

          • Carl:

            I suggest you and Almandine calm done and realize that those with different opinions are just as welcome here as the two of you. Tone down the rhetoric and stick to issues. I don’t like posters attacking other posters and I will put a stop to it and those who engage in such a practice. A “take no prisoners” attitude is not welcome here nor will it be tolerated.

            • It keeps many of us away from posting here on your site Doug. Quote: “we don’t take prisoners here.” If thats the case to hell with it, I’d rather go ride my bike.

              As to Carl’s comment on spamming, as long as Doug permits me to post my website link I will continue to do so. No one makes you regulars click on a posting visitors link do they? My God!

              • Hi Bill,

                Upon reading your comment, I feel I owe you an apology if you think my comment “we don’t take prisoners here” as personal. I’m beginning to think many of us have become humorless.

                Is SG2 your site? I remember the fact that your handle was a link to your site content and there were some thoughts exchanged on that fact between you and I. Your product line was software design etc., but not of a political nature.

                I personally find the practice as a from of offhand SPAM. If one posts on political forums such as this then they should use an unlinked handle and not try to promote their product or site ideas on another’s without getting express permission from the site host to do so. Again it’s simply my opinion and its linked to “web ethics”, if any can be found in these times.

                Best regards,

                Carl Nemo **==

            • Doug – My comment about the SG2 link was purely to show that SG2 is not merely an individual with a different opinion, but one of those seek and destroy sites set up or organized to trample opposition to the big zero and his policies. A tour de force in leftism…

              Look at the SG2 content above and see who posted flaming rhetoric instead of addressing issues.

              I actually said nothing about his opinions or post comment, mine was just a Caveat Emptor to Carl regarding Carl’s reply to what he seemed to think was a – dare I say, legitimate – reply to 5×5’s comment. Carl’s fare was his standard stuff… and also not aimed at SG2.

            • Hmm, that’s strange Doug!? When people have attacked you as being a partisan you’ve often said to the effect you have no favorites and take no prisoners when it comes to politicians and the games they play. You also threaten those that question your views as ‘taking a knife to a gunfight”, one of which I like and have quoted in the past when defending you against attackers.

              If you’ve paid any attention to my writings over time you’d realize I don’t engage in petty sniping, but try to tone things down if possible.

              I always try to post high order content without resorting to crude one liners.

              Of course SG2 is welcome here and I took the time to read the site content. In fact I picked up on Cantor shorting the U.S. Treasury Market via a bond ETF and used the material on the site today as a function for a “Daily Kos” link which seemingly supports the allegation.

              We enjoy hearing from you, but it seems it’s biased moreso to you breaking out your ‘shark billy’ to settle mostly “tempests in a teapot” rather than major mutinies. / : |

              Carl Nemo l**==

  8. Carl;

    “As long as this nation lives within its means; ie., not one cent more than that which is derived from reasonable tax revenues we can make it just fine.”……The thrust of this statement applies to what FDR had in mind for Social Security. One of his advisors at the time suggested putting the money in a pot to be disbursed as needed. FDR vehemently opposed this, saying that he wanted every dollar in SS assigned to individuals. He said that he never wanted the “boys on the hill” to get their hands on it.

    Well, in the 60’s, Lyndon “Boom Boom Vietnam” Johnson and the Democrats did just that, leading to Daniel Patrick Moynihan complaining in the late 80’s as to how Congress was “stealing the American people blind.” Boomers get stuck with much higher taxation in 83 to “ensure” benefits at retirement, but guess what? The govt. HAS been stealing SS blind and now 11th dimensional egoidiot wants to “trim” SS by cutting the throats of the invisible.

    You mentioned the Irish Famine, and of that I find something worth mentioning. True, the potatos had failed, but there was large quantities of grain being grown in Ireland. It never occurred to anyone that rather than export said grain, it might be used to alleviate the suffering. So there was the bizarre circumstance where people on the banks of the river Shannon fell over from hunger while grain ships passed them by.

    That scenario reminds me of the present. Barack Obama is interested in numbers, not people. His anger comes about from frustration that the world will not conform to his version of what’s to be. The fact that he is in many ways far to the right of Reagan is instructive, if not sickening.

    He is not just an empty suit. He’s an empty heart, with no passion except for his own guage of what greatness is. He seeks it, at the expense of Republicans and everyone else, but he will never find it. His “vision” is just that; a mirage.

    • Thanks Fivebyfives for your followup commentary and the interesting “grain ship” facts concerning the “Irish Famine” of the mid to late 1840’s, lasting approximately six years.

      I’m thinking readers might like to educate themselves concerning that era in Ireland’s history and will also explain current outbreaks between Irish Catholics and Protestants occurring in Northern Ireland at this time. The toxic political environment has its roots dating back to the 17th and 18th centuries. It’s something many people have talked about, but have little knowledge concerning its history along with the violent nuances of modern times.

      The upside is that estimated one million Irish, men, women and children that fled to America produced the seed for many generations of fine Irish folks that helped make this country great into the late 19th and 20th centuries.

      Too bad our national heritiage contributed by the hard work of many nationalities has been squandered by modern usurpers in high office since the end of WWII, supposedly our representatives, but in effect criminally disposed mattoids that will sell out America all for a few dollars, euro’s, shekels or yuan more… : |

      Carl Nemo **==

      • “The upside is that estimated one million Irish, men, women and children that fled to America…” extract from post

        I must clarify that many these one million Irish emigres of that period fled to Canada and Australia too and not simply to our shores. Regardless, wherever they fled to, they became an asset to the nation that received them. : )

        Since I’m Irish myself, I get overly enthused with things that are of Erin.

        Carl Nemo **==

  9. “That news sent U.S. dollar prices plummeting on the world market and Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke said the American economy faces another recession if the matter is not resolved.” …extract from article

    If I recall correctly the same was said about the need for TARP at the tail end of the Bush era along with Obama’s 780 billion ‘stiimulus bill’ shakedown too with little positive results three years later other than having saved criminally disposed domestic and offshore bankers and to keep Wall Street’s phony, overpriced stock structure floating, all at a ruinous debt cost to American taxpayers.

    Default along with the derivative shakeout of grifters in high places across all sectors from Wall street to main street will be like a breath of fresh air in the house the morning after when one opens windows to allow such.

    I’ve got news for America. We’ll do just fine if we default. We’re not a one trick pony nation that only grows a monocrop like potatoes and if it fails, we all die like slugs in the noonday sun similar to the Irish during the 1847 potato famine. We’re still the virtual breadbasket for the world in terms of food products and host of othere high tech products that we can be proud of as a nation. In addition we’re still capable of producing our own domestic products if the the right environment is set up for entrepreneurs to do so from shoes to the clothes on our backs.

    As long as this nation lives within its means; ie., not one cent more than that which is derived from reasonable tax revenues we can make it just fine.

    Pull the plug on our foreign combat based adventurism and aid to questionable allies and corrupt strongmen worldwide along with the closing of vestigial offshore military bases that simply prop up foreign economies and again we’ll do just fine. It’s simple as that, but does anyone at the top have such vision for this nation, seemingly not since their thought processes are both fogged and corrupted by the concept of globalism, now run amok…! : |

    Carl Nemo **==

    • Another recession? I had no idea it was over. Must not have gotten the memo.

      Who are the terrorists again?

    • 780 Billion spent, nearly all of it repaid, major depression avoided.

      That’s NOT something to show for it?

      • “780 Billion spent, nearly all of it repaid, major depression avoided.” …extract from post

        You must have a secure job and a plush bank account. We have record unemployment with homes being foreclosed at a record rate in this country while home values continue to plummet.

        Very little has been repaid with most of the stimulus money pissed down questionable “workfare ratholes”. My last reckoning came up with $112,000 bucks for every job created by this failing government with most of the money migrating in to the pockets of the criminally disposed.

        You must be living in a bubble dome on the dark side of the moon…no?

        Carl Nemo **==

        p.s. My aplogies for the delayed reply. I make it a point to review all posts to this site. When I find an ‘outlier’ post such as yours relative to thoughts supplied to this site; I feel its worth replying to.

  10. Barak Obama, in “Audacity of Hope”: “The conservative revolution that Reagan helped usher in gained traction because Reagan’s central insight – that the liberal welfare state had grown complacent and overly bureaucratic, with Democratic policy makers more obsessed with slicing the economic pie than with growing the pie – contained a good deal of truth.”

    Barak Obama on 2008-01-14: “I think Ronald Reagan changed the trajectory of America in a way that Richard Nixon did not and in a way that Bill Clinton did not. He put us on a fundamentally different path because the country was ready for it. They felt like with all the excesses of the 60s and the 70s and government had grown and grown but there wasn’t much sense of accountability in terms of how it was operating. I think he tapped into what people were already feeling. Which is we want clarity, we want optimism, we want a return to that sense of dynamism and entrepreneurship that had been missing.”

    Barak Obama on 2008-01-23: “Folks are talking about how I supposedly said how wonderful Ronald Reagan was. …I didn’t say I liked Ronald Reagan’s policies. What I said was that it [Reagan’s coalition] is the kind of working majority that we need to form in order to move a progressive agenda forward.”

    Barak Obama on 2008-06-17, discussing a meeting with religious leaders: “I opened up the meeting by quoting Ronald Reagan which was saying, I know you can’t endorse me, but I endorse you. I endorse the good works that are being done, the wonderful ministries that are taking place all across the country… I think they are a force for good and can do great things in the community and I think [most but] not all the changes we need in this country are going to be brought about because of a government program. [bracket added for its irresistable pique]

    Ronald Reagan on October 5, 1981: “The size of the federal budget is not an appropriate barometer of social conscience or charitable concern.”

    Barak Obama on 2011-07-13: “Ronald Reagan wouldn’t sit here like this [hell-bent on raising taxes].”

    Ronald Reagan on 1980-09-01: “A recession is when your neighbor loses his job. A depression is when you lose yours. And recovery is when [Obama] loses his.” [Reagan actually said “Jimmy Carter” instead of “Obama”, but the two seem interchangeable.]

        • Don’t you think it’s a little odd that the taxedenoughalready crowd decided to make their case at the lowest point in federal taxation in 60 years?

          No one ever seems to care when actual TEApubs are described, but I’ll do it again anyway. I know one local TEA activist who has no income. He is not taxed. He is a bit crazy. I know another TEA couple who are on a double-dipping fed retirement – since they don’t seem to make the connection between their income and their outgo, I would say that they are also crazy. I know another TEA mooch who spent his whole life working in a Fed agency and is now retired – he doesn’t make the connection, either.

          Hence my statement that TEA members are idiots. I don’t know what the proper tax revenue level (I think the Bush tax cuts should expire) is but I know that the protesters (that I know) of our currently low rates are idiots.

          • Just for fun… what’s your total – fed/state/local combined taxation percentage, not including sales tax?

                • Hi logtroll, Almandine and other site participants.

                  I thought I’d supply a link to an article by Larry Edelson a contributor and financial adviser associated with Weiss Research Inc. under their free “Uncommon Wisdom” newsletter, this one titled “The Insane Cost of Government”. All I can say is it left me hushed and unequivocally demonstrates its time to pull the plug on D.C., state and local governments too. They’re all addicted to spending beyond their means…period!


                  I have no vested financial interest in Weiss Research other than being a subscriber to their financial newsletters. I urge readers to subscribe to this free web based newsletter. You won’t be spammed and the company is of the highest caliber along with the people that are resident financial editorialists and advisers.

                  Carl Nemo **==

                  • Cap’n,

                    Tell me how many people you know who are sending 63% of their income to their various governments. I am not anywhere near that. Almandine is about to tell us where he is at with tax payments, unless he is an idiot.

                    Your man Larry is a bloviator. Granted, because of the deficit spending by the federal gov’t (my state and local gov’ts aren’t allowed to do that), current payments are less than full cost. But I didn’t see any mathematical justification presented to support his claim.

                    I think he is lying.

                    • Evidently you didn’t take the time to read the article in depth. It’s the total cumulative tax bight of all types from federal to local levels that adds up.

                      You pay Federal income taxes, excise tax. Also federal taxes are imbedded in the price of the goods you purchase since corporations pay taxes, but pass on their ‘tax burden’ in the cost of their goods and services. There’s many arcane federal taxes imbedded in shipping costs over various kinds of products and services that the average consumer has little realization thereof.

                      Then you have state income tax if you live within a state that levies such.

                      There’s state sales taxes, property taxes, real estate transaction taxes in addition to excise taxes. There’s taxes on liquor and cigarettes at many levels of government.

                      There’s also city income tax and in some cases county taxes in some jurisdictions too.

                      The point of Larry Edelson’s article in which case he’s referencing data supplied by “The American’s for Tax Reform Foundation’s Cost of Government Day Report” and not cooked up on his behalf.

                      Btw, I subscribe to Larry’s “Real Wealth Report” and I must say his sound recommendations have plumped by portolio by a hundred thousand plus dollars in the past several years along with other so-called ‘bloviators’ on the Weiss site/s. I suggest you cool down concerning your exchange with Almandine and focus on the reality of taxation run amok..

                      We’re being skinned alive by taxes of all kinds. It’s insidious to say the least to the point that most folks don’t realize how pervasive the problem has become.

                      Carl Nemo **==

                    • Cap’n,

                      The problem with that sort of accounting is that it is analogous to looking in a mirror while holding a mirror, you get a theoretically endless reflection repetition to infinity.

                      The economic multiplier, which the author uses to try to maximize the apparent endless aggregation of “taxes” can be flipped around to show an endless aggregation of benefits that result from those taxes as well.

                      It gets essentially too complicated to track in a hurry whenever you try of crunch the numbers, so the scenario is ripe for interpretive abuse.

                      But consider this; I think that you have some amount of retirement income, and possibly other benefits, from past federal employment. Your federally derived revenue stream benefits you directly in numerous easily quantifiable ways. But you don’t get actual benefit until you trade that revenue for goods and services (possible exception of peace of mind from a fat bank account, or something). When you participate in the circulation of those revenues – which were once mine, then the gov’ts, then yours -more taxes occur (pre-judged to be a negative thing by most) and more benefits occur. Money gone to taxes does not disappear, it merely goes to a new incarnation of exchanges.

                      What if your federally sourced income were stopped? The next folks in line to the circulation of that money wouldn’t get it, and whoever follows them wouldn’t get it, and the tax man wouldn’t get it. The system would screech to a halt. Then what?

                      An economy IS the circulation of money (or equivalents). Granted, there are healthier ways to circulate money (giving it to the drunks under the bridge is not entirely bad from the standpoint of money circulation, but it might produce more desirable benefits if it was used to rehabilitate them). Wars don’t seem to be an especially good way to optimize the benefits from tax money, even though they obviously stimulate certain areas of economic activity.Subsidizing corn-based fuel ethanol doesn’t seem to be one of the best ways to spend tax revenues because of the large number of negative effects and the small beneficial return. Supporting the unemployed, while risking giving away money to slackers and layabouts, seems to have a large upside – keeping folks viable for productive participation in our social and economic system.

                      I agree that spending needs to be controlled; I agree that taxation needs limits; but I do not agree that gov’t is inherently bad (it’s no worse that the sum of its parts) and I don’t think that people can function well as isolated units (that doesn’t mean I’m a bad Socialist).

                      To pick out a “fact” and assign it all sorts of significance while ignoring the complex system of which it may be a part (if it is actually a “fact”) is foolhardy. And even though I used the word “idiot”, none of us are idiots because we don’t easily completely understand the complex systems in which we function. One is closer to being an idiot for latching on to one narrow viewpoint and pretending that it is the one and only way.

                • So, out of the blue you ask someone on the internet to tell you and the rest of whoever might be reading to state his fed/state/local tax percentage, which you cannot do (for unknown reasons), and someone demurs, and you call them an idiot.

                  I called my acquaintances idiots, not because they wouldn’t answer a prying question, but because they are trying to cut off their own income stream without knowing it … and don’t forget the guy who pays no taxes and is angry because he is taxedenoughalready.

                  I would consider calling you an idiot because you just want to pick a fight over inane details, which even you won’t supply to your own game (whatever that was going to be).

                  In this particular instance, why don’t you bugger off?

                  • There are lots of idiots around…Perhaps it has more to do with the lack of real knowledge and understanding than any thing else. Look at how many millions of people fell for Obama’s shtick. I’ve never been to a tea party event, but I think the vast majority of idiots fall in the Democrat or Republican loyalist camps. After all, they’re the ones that keep the cycle going…

                    Oops…I left out the so-called Independents. Ha. The biggest idiots of them all.

                    • So who isn’t an idiot griff by your standards? My wife and I voted for Obama and have felt the self-humiliation ever since and I was the first to admit my mistake with my “Rain on the Parade” article posted to this site when blogposts existed.

                      I’m a farily well read guy, but am also a pragmatist. I like others was impressed by the guy’s articulation, the fact he was black and just might make a difference on the Washington scene. Instead even prior to his inauguration he began to surround himself with retreads from past administrations going back to the Reagan/H.W. Bush era and beyond to present, even keeping Bob Gates as SOD. Basically “Mr. Change we can believe in became” …’Mr. no change at all; i.e, business as usual; the new boss same as the old boss syndrome as in the finest traditions of organized crime.

                      Obama & Co. have galvanized me concerning presidential aspirants. They are all highly suspect to me and most likely I will never vote/indemnify any of them again. I’ll not have the blood of our nation on my hands via the ballot box…ever again!

                      You’ve never said who you voted for in the last presidential election. Since you saw through Obama’s schtick, then either you voted for John McCain or Ron Paul, then again maybe no one which to me would have been the best choice. My all time favorite bumper sticker is “Don’t vote it only encourages them”… : |

                      I’ve followed Ron Paul for years buying many of his pamphlets, soft bound publications etc. I’ve even purchased gold coins from his gold dealership which he maintained at one time back in the mid-80’s. To be honest though his campaign performance has disappointed me regardless of the sound Constitutional principles he espouses. To me he’s been one big disappointing…false start for years.

                      A certified ‘idiot’, a lifelong registered “Independent” rests his case. : |

                      Carl Nemo **==

                  • Probably not…

                    Actually, I didn’t call you an idiot but merely noted your name-calling and and attempt to deflect my question via the “little white lie” instead of plainly saying “I don’t give out that type of info.” That would have been fair enough.

                    But, let’s go at it from the other perspective. “Latching” onto your explanation that money spent by the govt and circulated through the economy is multiplicatively a good thing, is there some amount beyond which that modus operandi is a bad thing? I.e., is there some level of tax-and-spend at which the govt needs to quit taking, or is evermore tax-and-spend the best strategy for a robust economy? Is there some SWAG max-tax number?

                    • Probably (to all your questions).

                      Now how about using yourself as the test subject in your question about what percentage tax you pay? I thought maybe you were going to use a real example to demonstrate something. I think that would be far more interesting than posing a list of unanswerable broadly generalized speculative questions that can only lead to unprovable broadly generalized speculative arguments that lead nowhere.

                    • And here I thought you’d have erudite responses to my questions. You’re right… I must be an idiot! But, on with what you call the “game”.

                      I know you like anecdotes, but how about the general case? The average single (me) person had an income and payroll tax burden of 22.9% in 2010. The average state tax burden in 2009 (latest data I can find) was 9.8%. Local property taxes come in at about 10%, or so of property value, and average sales taxes run about 30% of remaining expenditures annually. Seems like a pretty good haul for govt to me.

                      The view from the Tax Foundation:

                      Tax Freedom Day® will arrive on April 12 this year, the 102nd day of 2011. That means Americans will work well over three months of the year, from January 1 to April 12, before they have earned enough money to pay this year’s tax obligations at the federal, state and local levels.

                      Tax Freedom Day arrives three day later in 2011 than it did in 2010, but nearly two weeks earlier than in 2007. This shift toward a lower tax burden since 2007 has been driven by three factors:

                      • The Great Recession has reduced tax collec­tions even faster than it has reduced income.

                      • President Obama and the Congress, after a long debate, extended the Bush-era tax cuts for two additional years.

                      • As part of the extension agreement, the Making Work Pay tax credit was replaced with the 2 percent reduction in the payroll tax.

                      Despite these tax reductions, Americans will pay more in taxes in 2011 than they will spend on groceries, clothing and shelter combined.

                    • One correction: the sales tax rate was on income remaining after taxes, not expenditures. Mea culpa.

                    • Al, you better find somebody else to do your taxes. As you found, answering your own questions was not a simple and clear task, was it. You apparently were not able to use your own data, since you didn’t.

                      The combined fed (incl. Ss and mc) and state figure you used is close to mine (like you, I don’t know the exact figure). Sales tax here is 7.25 percent, not 30. Property taxes are about one percent, not ten.

                      Next logical question should be to itemize what those taxes buy, another complex issue.

                      Maybe you should put some effort into real data that relates to something before running away with your imagination?

                    • First, I do know my exact percentages and my data are in fact in that range, too, but a single case is not as useful as the broader picture. I could be Bill Gates or the guy under the bridge, neither of which would be particularly relevant to the issue.

                      As for the rest, maybe you should learn to read s-l-o-w-l-y so you get it.

                      The sales tax number I quoted was the percentage of residual income that sales taxes consume after the other individual taxes are paid, not the simple rate on goods and services. The simple rate here is 8.375 , but only on goods, not services.

                      Property taxes are a function of appraised property value, and hard to measure broadly because of the different formulas used to set the assessment ratio. As a percentage of residual income, they will be less than the others. Mine are 12% of the assessment ratio, whereas property taxes in New Jersey are 5 or 6 times that much. Having said all that, after paying fed, state, local, and sales taxes, their relative burden is inversely proportional to the remainder of residual income, and certainly more on average than 1%. That’s not imagination.

                      What the federal income taxes buy is everything from military might to turning food into automobile fuel to training Chinese hookers how to drink responsibly on the job, which is actually the reason that more taxes cannot be justified, without paring the idiotic from the list of “multiplicative benefits” we’ve been sold.

                      So it’s not a game at all… but travesty.

  11. Evidently Obama’s slick-talking articulation that he pulls off on the unwashed masses while ‘campaigning’ doesn’t work with the politically savvy, corrupt crimpols that represent this nation. To them he’s simply the “cubby in chief”…!

    Seemingly he’s only cleared to leave the area in a pout because he and his party apparatchiks can’t get their way. The guy is truly an empty suit and out of his league when it comes to dealing with hardened, entrenched political criminals as we now have in Congress.

    Carl Nemo **==

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