Israel became a Terrorist State Yesterday.

36 thoughts on “Israel became a Terrorist State Yesterday.”

1. Rob, where you been?
   Yesterday?
   C’mon.

   Israel should be held accountable for their actions.

   The Holocaust happened 60 years ago.
   No more “get out of jail free” cards for a people who continually oppress, suppress, murder and maim those around them while claiming to be the victim. If/when people around you all dislike you it’s time to look within instead of blaming everyone else.

   Lastly, isn’t it strange that Netanyahu looks more like Putin than Arafat?

2. When Isreal attacked this ship they have sunk to the levels of those they hate so much. As far as I’m concerned, they’re no better than the Taliban. Shall we call them Isrealiban?

3. As a quick nod to history being the best teacher, lets just remember the US personnel of the USS Liberty who were attacked and died at the hands of the Israeli government.

4. Apologies for the following off-topic comment.

   This is probably a “big DUH” for everyone else, but I have discovered that the indentation scheme is much easier to follow if you copy and paste the comments section into a MS Word file. I don’t print it out, I just read it and deleted it.

   Kent

5. >>Why don’t you talk about the rockets being fired into civilian centers in Israel?<<

   Not being; were, past tense. The rockets stopped with the Egyptian-brokered ceasefire back in February 2009.

6. So far I have read more balanced reports (than other western msm) of the massacre in Israeli newspapers, including some interesting ones:

   This from Haaretz:

   “Officers denounce operation as ‘military and diplomatic failure’, slam government for placing blame on the activists.”

   https://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/israel-navy-reserves-officers-allow-external-gaza-flotilla-probe-1.294536

   Looks like the “self hating Jew” syndrome is a problem in the IDF as well.

   And this interesting article:

   “In Israel too, it is merely a matter of time until they reach me, and you as well. Just as German pastor Martin Niemoller said about the Nazi period.”

   https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/i-too-did-not-speak-out-1.294208

   An intentionally provocative read; although I can appreciate the writer’s (another self hating Jew no doubt) Nazi analogy, and Yossi’s reasons for presenting same, I would ague that Israel’s manic obsession with security, control (both physical and mental) and enforcement of same more closely resembles Apart-Hate South Africa.

   Actually I wrote stuff about this the other day for another forum, but I don’t think I’ll bother posting it. My claim to authority in relation to this topic is that I have lived in Apart -Hate South Africa and communist China. I have observed and been subject to the rules of a dictatorial regime; witnessed oppression, dehumanisation and punishment. I understand the rules (processes), though I must admit I felt more relaxed and safe in China than I ever did in SA.

   However the guts of the “topic” could be expressed in the following terms:

   Myth and delusion (God’s own country).

   Dehumanisation

   Justification

   Control

   Obedience

   Exploitation

   Arrogance

   Brutality

   All of which are the consequences of self righteousness and fear resulting in a siege mentality that fosters ever increasing processes for the control and punishment of dissent. In short a paradox where the security processes imposed deliver the opposite expectations, resulting in an uncontrollable self fulfilling vortex of conflict. No nation large or small can survive such turmoil for long periods.

   Sadly, if allowed to continue the dehumanisation process becomes a “natural” part of life – observing it is like watching someone with eczema scratching at scabs – after a while they do it quite unconsciously; it becomes a thoughtless habit.

   I disagree with the Nazi comparison and I more than doubt that Israel will end up like Germany in May 1945 having slaughtered millions of innocents souls.

   However judging by Israel’s present behaviour and the aforementioned Dr Meyer’s observations I would not be surprised if Israel was to end up a little bit like South Africa post Apart-Hate.

   Fortunately in SA the “arrogant Boer” eventually foresaw the inevitable; today in Israel the brutal right minority controlling the show have yet to wake up to the bleeding obvious.

   South Africa of course made a choice, a reasonable (just) choice yet there is much to critise about the journey they have began. Sadly after many years of both habitual and brutual dehumanisation it will take a long time for the trans-generational baggage to be discarded – but that’s another discussion.

   Cheers.

   PS. “Israel must be a like a mad dog, too dangerous to bother.” – Moshe Dayan. That may be an indicication into the mind set that planned and executed Israel’s recent disaster.

7. Mr Kezelis, you are a brave man; it had to be written.

   “Next you are going to blame the Jews for killing themselves during WW2 and forcing themselves into the showers and ovens.” – Bill

   Bill, the Holocaust was an immense tragedy and any man of blood must be horrified at the depths of depravity human beings can stoop to, but that was yesterday. Sure never forget, but mate, it ain’t going happen again.

   “The Misuse of the Holocaust for Political Purposes”

   https://info-wars.org/2010/02/02/dublin-holocaust-survivor-speaks-out-against-israel-the-siege-of-gaza-endorses-boycott-campaign/

   “Dr. Meyer further went on to say that the lesson modern Zionism wants people to learn from the Holocaust is that “we Jews have a monopoly on suffering. Therefore, whatever we do to the Palestinians – or anyone else – however horrible, is less that what we suffered” and therefore excusable.

   Dr. Meyer continued by saying that “Israel has not the slightest wish to make peace – to Israel peace is an entirely ambivalent term, its means only the peace and freedom to continue carrying out its crimes against the Palestinian people”, and as such, he fully supported the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions campaign against Israel as a progressive non-violent method of international resistance to Israeli crimes.

   Dr. Meyer concluded by making clear that “Israelis should not be dehumanised. However, Israel is dehumanising itself through its treatment of Palestinians, and this will be its downfall.”

   I suppose modern day Zionist would describe the good Dr Meyer as a “self hating Jew”.

   Not so long ago I watched a Jewish settler interviewed on a documentary. When asked why she was building a home on land that did not belong to her she replied with words to the effect: where do you expect me to live, a concentration camp?

   It’s sad that the Holocaust became the erroneous justification for the theft and dehumanisation of a people who had nothing to do with Hitler’s Germany.

   In short the Palestinians had to write the cheque to pay for the insentivity and callousness of the world at large towards Jews living in pre WW2 Germany, Russia and elswhere. They weren’t “our” problem – we turned our backs and the rest is a sad a chronicle of man’s humanity towards man – for no good reason at all.

   My fear is that the rabbid Zionism right that is calling the shots in Israel at present will do considerable harm to all Jews and give racist morons a chance to champion Hiltler and his depravity.

   BTW – there was/is a very simple non violent solution to take control of invading merchant ships. Gil Hoffman reported in the JPOST that a senior Israeli naval officer suggested it was a rather simple excercise to disable a ships propellor or rubber – game over.

   My question is:

   Why did Israeli leadership choose the Rambo option when a more sensible and non-violent approach would have done the trick?

   I’ll leave that up to the reader to ponder.

   Cheers

   PS. A crass example of the dehumanisation of the “enemy” which also dehumanises the ‘good guys”. This ex-vets considerations are worth reading:

   https://unitedcats.wordpress.com/2009/03/24/1-shot-2-kills/

8. Kent, you are absolutely right. The way Israel was created should not have happened the way it did. And the inequitable situation should not have festered for 60+ years. The refugee camps are still there, full of angry people. Of course Palestinians are mad as hell.

   On the flip side, there are now at least three generations of Israelis living in that space that was once Palestine. They consider it their home now. And, they feel they have every right to defend their homes, as do you and I.

   Two hundred years ago it was same story, different continent. Did the Europeans swipe most of North America from the natives? You bet. Are we, their great-great-great grandchildren, about to say ‘sorry’ and give it back? Not a chance.

   If you have a good solution we’re all ears.

   —W—

9. Warren, I think you make an excellent point and observation. Cultural perceptions did help to shape what came-down. Middle Eastern culture and Western culture will see this incident in entirely different ways. What I am amazed at is how peceptions can vary so widely in our own culture. For example: when I read Kent Shaw’s comments, I have to wonder if he is reading the same history I am. Of course, I studied history when it was called history, not social studies. The only conclusion I can come to is Kent and I are not reading the same factual history. It could be my experience is the difference, because I have been alive for almost as long as Israel has been re-established.

   • Yep… one man’s terrorist is another’s freedom fighter. Walk in their shoes and then tell us the tale.

   • So then, over 700,000 people were not forced from their homes by the migrants from Eastern Europe?

10. Hey Guardhouse, I would consider defensive weapons purchased by or donated to a democratically elected but otherwise out-gunned and out-matched occupying force to be humanitarian aid, i.e. self defense.

11. There’s the difference between ‘excusing’ and ‘explaining’.

    I don’t see how anyone can ‘excuse’ the behavior of the IDF. This legendary military group, world renowned for it’s invincibility. “We had to shoot the guy four times in the head. Heck, we with our torpedoes and stun grenades and automatic rifles had only forced a boarding in international waters with hostile intent. We were no match for his stick and slingshot when he fought back.” Give me a break.

    But then there is ‘explaining’. There is a significant cultural difference between US-European attitudes and Middle East attitudes. One Israeli government official summed it up nicely. Sorry, I can’t find the source right now. But he said something like “This is isn’t the US or Western Europe. One cannot show weakness here.” His point being that the Israelis are playing by a different set of rules that US and European mindsets don’t viscerally understand.

    So, it can be ‘explained’ but not ‘excused’.

    Where the IDF screwed up, in a PR sense only, is applying their Middle Eastern tactics against people of European cultures.

    —W—

12. Sorry, Rob, but Israel began as a terrorist state. As a great man once said, “You can look it up.” You could look up: Irgun, Stern Gang, Haganah, Sabra, Shatila, Beirut once, Beirut twice, burning Palestinian orchards and fields, routinely slaughtering children… shall I go on?

13. You are correct Guardhouse. After rereading the second post (response by Bob) I see what you mean. Did Bob K. do that interview or did it come from another source? Should the source be cited?

14. As usual, the good doctor sums it up nicely.

15. Bob Kezelis: So Bob, answer me this question. What do you consider yourself: a journalist, a columnist or an activist? In your initial editorial piece “ISRAEL BECAME A TERROIST STATE YESTERDAY” you failed to allude to the fact that you were on that ship. Just reading your article, I had no idea you were on the boat that was seized. As a journalist, isn’t it important to portray yourself as an unbiased, fair observer of the facts? In your initial editorial piece you impugn the “Standard of Journalism”. When you wrote your second piece as a response, it was plain as day you were on the ship and where your sympathies are. Does this compromise your journalist credentials? I guess that “COLUMNIST” are held to a lesser standard than “JOURNALIST”. So what really happened: is that you are an “ACTIVIST” writing and op-ed column; that told part of the facts from an extremely biased point of view. I too have sympathies for the average Palestinian citizen that is caught up in this mess. Do you really think that this flotilla brought world attention to the average Palestinian plight or has it increased regional and world-wide tensions beyond repair? The flotilla was a bad idea. It made things worse. There are better ways to solving this problem.

    • Go back and read the first paragraph.

      Certainly he should have used quotation marks, but it is clear that the rest of his post is from someone else.

16. The exam for the day:

    1. As a US citizen you are convinced that your country has the right to protect its borders from anything harmful coming into the country, and that your country has the right to require that ships attempting to bring in any cargoes be required to declare the cargoes and allow inspection. Do you condone the use of force to protect your borders?

    2. As an Israeli citizen you are convinced that your country has the right to protect its borders from anything harmful coming into the country, and that your country has the right to require that ships attempting to bring in any cargoes be required to declare the cargoes and allow inspection. Do you condone the use of force to protect your borders?

    3. Please explain any disparity between your answers to the first question and your answers to the second question.

    • Ummmm…The ship wasn’t bound for Israel.

      • You are correct, of course. But the point remains. If this were being done to protect US citizens or interests would it be condemned in the same manner? I think not.

        • By myself, yes. By most others in this hyper-sensitive national security mindest, probably not.

          A ship carrying aid to a devestated region in international waters? I believe if this was off the coast of Somalia it would be called piracy.

          Diplomacy and statesmanship are things of the past.

          • If the ships were carrying nothing but unembargoed foodstuffs, medicine, humanitarian supplies, etc., they should have been very willing to stop at Haifa for transshipping to Gaza. To do otherwise is to assure yourself of a rude greeting. Which is exactly what they got.

            Unless, of course, your primary aim was really not to provide humanitarian aid but to instead cause an international incident.

            Something to think about?

17. Great piece, Rob. But Israel has been a terrorist entity even before it was a “state.” It was founded almost entirely through the use of terrorism and of course propaganda to lie about it. After the Balfour Declaration of 1917, the British Army was contractually obligated to “help” the Jews “settle” in Palestine, but of course, the Jews wanted a lot more than that. Merely settling in Palestine had been made very easy for the Jews by the Ottomans (Turks) except for a brief period during WWI. So the Jews (I mean zionist Jews, BTW) came up with a really nifty little plan. Go into a neighborhood, squat on the land, cause some trouble, steal some goats, burn a barn, whatever. Then, when the Arab natives retaliated, the Brits were called in, cleared the land, jailed or killed the Palestinians, then turned the land over to the Jewish National Fund, a front organization for the Rothschilds. The Rothschlids would then “sell” it to the settlers, at extreme discount of course, but thereby giving the whole theft a veneer of legitimacy, at least to the British public.
    This worked well for quite a while. But the Brits began to see what the scam was and rebel, not always siding with the Jews. Pretty soon, terrorist gangs of Jews were shooting the Brits in the back, because “keeping the peace” was the last thing the Jews were interested in. (sound familiar??) Then, of course, Britain withdrew in 1947 and all Hell broke loose.
    Anyway, I loved the piece, but keep in mind that terrorism and Israel are like oil and oil. And really, really hard to get out of the water.

18. Rob Kezelis, I used to respect you. No longer.

    Israel has been under attack from the Palestinians since before 1948. But, of course you know that. Israel has been fighting for the right to exist, since long before Islam became a theocratic religion, albeit a homicidal one, But you know that…Israel holds the only chance for stability in the ME; But, you know that; Israel has been under consistent attack from the Palestinians (they elected Hamas to power) for many years, But you know that, too.

    Knowing as you do how a postage stamp sized little nation has been fighting for its right to survive, as long as it has (Israel existed almost 3,000 years before Allah and Islam became a theocracy of hate and murder…”All Infidels shall be put to death”…Bye, bye Kezelis), and knowing (assuming that you still have a few brain cells that may be active), how is it that you can always, as does Phil Hoskins, condemn those known to present to all humankind, with a “Front” to defend your right to speak with illegitimacy? How do you justify, in your darkest sleep, your condemnation of those who would defend your right to be an ASS, for their actions to allow you to continue to speak without knowledge, intelligence, or maturity?

    Shame on you, Rob Kezelis. Your parents are no doubt, wondering what they let loose on this world.

    You have a Law Degree, try demonstrating that you EARNED it.

    • Spence, I love you, guy, but reflexive reactions seldom work well. Here’s the interview of an American who was stepped on, handcuffed, then had a bag put over her head:

      A few hours later, while it was still dark, approximately 4:00, 4:30 in the morning, we saw their naval vessels quickly approaching just around our vessels. On our ship, we had approximately seventeen people, five of them which were American citizens. We all went outside, because we had planned to try to prevent them from boarding our ship as best as we can just using our bodies. Going outside allowed me to see the beginnings of the attack on the Turkish ship, the Mavi Marmara. We were traveling very close alongside it on its left side. And I saw Zodiacs filled with armed commandos coming up upon the ship, then heard explosions, which I take to be tear—sorry, concussion grenades or sound bombs. And then there were—opening fire. And because we didn’t have any guns or weapons on our ships, fire came from the Israeli commandos. There was also a helicopter overhead. As far as the people on the ship, I could see them at first try to use just water hoses to keep the Israeli soldiers back, but that’s all I was able to see before our ship decided to take as fast as we could.

      Although we had initially agreed that we would all stay together and help each other, the captain of the Marmara told us to go on ahead and try to radio out, try to tell the world what was happening, that we were under attack. So we put our boat in full speed and tried to prevent or at least delay them boarding our ship. Unfortunately, we could not get any word out, because our satellite communications systems were jammed. So after about fifteen—ten or fifteen minutes or so, they were able to surround our boat and proceeded to board it.

      We tried to put our bodies in the way. We repeated that we’re on an American flag vessel, we are unarmed civilians, don’t board. They had masks and guns, and they proceeded to violently board. They threw concussion grenades onto the boat. They used tasers on people and then, in general, just beat people down that tried to put themselves in the way. We had—we tried to prevent them from getting inside the boat. They broke the glass doors to get access to the wheelhouse. Anyone that stood in the way, they just beat them down. A young Belgian volunteer ended up with a bloody face. Just to give you an example of how they treated us, you know, they grabbed me by the hair and rammed my head into the deck and then were stepping on my head in order to cuff my hands behind my back and then put a sack over my head. And this is the kind of violent treatment that we were subjected to, as Israel says that, yeah, they were as nonviolent as possible and they were the ones under attack.

      • The videos taken of the boarding put the lie to this fantasy telling. “We tried to put our bodies in the way”…? What is that? Butt to butt, belly to belly…they “shook their booty”? Did the women attempt to put their boobs in the IDF’s faces? What a crock.

        Sadly, too many on CHB, Phil Hoskins, a number of your posters, and you, Rob, think that the history of the Jews in this ancient land is a lie…Phil Hoskins himself has said that he thinks that the story of the Jews fleeing from Egypt is a lie…apparently, even though he is a lawyer as well as you, just as lawyers make it up as they go, so do the two of you when it comes to ancient history.

        Whether or not you like it, the Jews have been in Israel (what is today, Israel) since 2,000 years BCE. Muslims, Islam, has only been on Earth since 800 CE. Or, would you like to change that history, too?

        You open your response with, “Spence, I love you, guy…”…no, Rob, I think not…you sold your soul too easily to Doug Thompson. All he had to do was give you a byline in a blog that had a far greater readership than did ours (far bigger in part due to Thompson selling out to the advertisers who flood these pages). You didn’t even have the courtesy to say, “Ciao”. As an “Apologist” for the Palestinians, and thus for terrorists as a whole (remember, Hamas was elected to power by the Palestinians, who used the children of Gaza as shields when they daily attacked Israel…or have you totally revised history in that regard as well?), I have no doubt that you are far more comfortable here among your own, I.e. Hoskins and the plethora of anti-Semitics posting on this blog, than you would be were you on a site that held you accountable for your spewing of words.

19. Oh Bullshit! I am so tired of all the Israel bashing. Don’t tell me that the ship only had humanitarian supplies, because I don’t believe that for a minute. Don’t claim that the people were unarmed because that is ridiculous. Hamas and the PLO don’t go anywhere without their AK47s and Kafiyahs hiding their ugly visages. Do you think the Israeli borders who were shot were shot by their fellow soldiers? Come on Rob, there was nothing humanitarian or peaceful about the arabs smuggling arms into Gaza, and the Israeli’s knew it and can’t discuss this without compromising their sources.

    Why don’t you talk about the rockets being fired into civilian centers in Israel? Why don’t you talk about the invaluable information that Israel provides the USA about arab duplicity. You want to stop aid to Israel? So you want our wonderful friend in the middle east–Saudi Arabia to be the new good buddy? Did you forget that all but one of the monsters who perpetrated 9-11 were from Saudi Arabia? Did you forget that Saudi Arabia is a major contributor to terrorist organizations around the world.
    Next you are going to blame the Jews for killing themselves during WW2 and forcing themselves into the showers and ovens.
    Why don’t you get real and why don’t you move to Gaza if you are so dedicated to the poor people there?
    You disgust me.

    • Bill, you disgust me. i don’t even want to hear you mention that Palestinians attacked Israel. Let me remind you that Israel killed over a thousand innocent Palestinians last year, when less than 100 israelis were killed. Israelis are greedy and selfish losers who just want all the land to themselves, they are bullies, they dont reserve any land at all. I have a joke for you: What is the difference between Jews and boy scouts? Answer: Boyscouts return from camp.

20. “Peace convoy”? How about a staged provocation? Please, let’s be serious and not talk of false “humanitarian” compassion.

21. Well, it is time to bash Israel again. How is it that defending yourself from thousands of rocket attacks that have gone on for years can be twisted into the defenders being called terrorists? It is a sad situations for the Palestinian people. The Palestian people could have had 90 to 95 % of everything they wanted years ago. They could have had peace. They could have had a country of their own, with a good economy. They could have had education for their children and a promising future. The political forces around them, that played their plight to their own ends; cheating the Palestinian people out of their future. Israel tried to give the chance for peace to happen. Who stood in the way?
    Nobody gets 100% of what they want. I know Palestinians that would have gladly accepted 90 to 95% of their hope for a future. For those that are reporting this event. Are your reporting what you have been fed; or, are you reporting the truth. What will it be: spin or truth?

    • Remember Rachel Corrie. Who built the 30-ft concrete wall? Who said they would stop settlements but expanded them? Who promised peace and then broke the cease-fire? Who created the Gaza ghetto? Who just attacked a peace convoy bringing humanitarian aid to Gaza?

    • Spoken like a true believer.

22. israel has been a terrorist state for decades. Truth is, the jews are using the horrible legacy of the holocaust to avoid responsibility for some ghastly behaviour along the gaza bank. until the world finally begins to mobilize against the israelis and against the americans who back them, unprovoked assaults like the one we saw a few days ago will continue; the jews aren’t going to stop unless they are forced to stop. By the way, what I find most humorous in all of this is that more young gentiles will be sent out by the excited states to fight israel’s battles for it – even though the jews invariably loathe these christian, high-school-educated, gentile youth.

23. Became? Yesterday?
    Is this a joke?

24. Only yesterday?

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