good luck with that. You will find that the Libertarians primarily care about one thing and that is dissolving the Federal Income Tax. They will not nominate someone unless they whole heartedly embrace this concept while not proposing any alternative to fund gov't.

Bob Barr is just a PO'd Republican. But I hope he gets the nomination because he will pull a lot of GOP votes away from McCain.

Yup. That entered my mind as I was watching the nomination convention. The LP platform calls for a limited government that will eventually repeal the 16th Amendment (IRS) We either go to the extreme on this stuff or end up broken and all Americans living in poverty.

This is my party as it will never even discuss the prohibitions that the GOP wants on all of us. Of course the LP cannot win but it is the only chance to try to break the chains of the two parties.

It'll be interesting to see how they progress. It's far too late to have any substantial impact on this election. Obama's stolen the show. He's the media darling, and the media runs the show.

If you don't get on TV, you have no chance. The media cut Ron Paul off at the knees when he started to become a serious threat. I don't know how closely you followed his campaign, but I was a precinct captain. In the South Carolina debate, he so shredded the Fox moderators that they cut one of his answers from all subsequent re-airs, even on the web. The next day he was officially off-the-air. Goodbye! Not to mention that he outraised everyone in the fourth quarter of '07, typically the toughest time of the year to raise money, to the tune of $20 million.

Obama will shred McCain in the coming months and be front and center for the remainder of this campaign. George Bush set the table for Obama and I hear the dinner bell ringing. On the menu - the remainder of the Constitution and Bill of Rights, and with it - the Republic.

Bush was a sacrificial lamb. Dumb as a doorknob and easily manipulated, strong-willed and simple - the perfect stooge. That's why he was appointed back in 2000. Al Gore just wasn't cut out for the part. But that's alright, they threw him the Global Warming bone and a Nobel. Another propaganda campaign tailor-made for the Democrats.

What we have is a bipartisan assault on the Constitution that began long before Bush was even a gleam in pappa's eye (sorry for the gruesome visual). Both parties perpetuate the intricate ballet of partisan politics, all the while nibbling away at the foundations of this country behind the false paradigm of left vs. right. 9/11 gave them the excuse to start taking larger chunks, and their bellies are full with the rights of the People.

You'll never sway any Obama supporters, so the only votes they can hope for are new voters - who are already flocking to Obama en masse, or disaffected Republicans.

The vast majority of people aren't concerned with civil liberties. We have done precisely what Benjamin Franklin cautioned us against - we have sacrificed liberty to achieve security, and now we have neither.

Case in point...The housing bill that passed committee the other day contained a last-minute amendment to establish a national fingerprint database of all mortgage lenders in the country, including real estate agents that receive lender compensation for sales. This means everyone involved in mortgage lending. Noone even bats an eye. Why? Because the government is handing out money.

The vast majority of people aren't interested in real change, they are more than happy to settle for the illusion of it. They expect the government to cure all the ills of society but never question the real costs in terms of liberty or treasure, or whether they are even capable or qualified for such endeavors. I think they've proven themselves incapable wnd woefully unqualified.

The vast majority of people have no idea what free market capitalism really is, as evidenced by their insistence that we have such a system. For all they know, the Austrian School is where Arnold graduated from. Economics is boring and mundane. Our economic system has been so bastardized and manipulated as to be unrecognizable. The only people that benefit from it are the people that run it, and their well-heeled lapdogs and sycophants.

As I've studied The Founders and their writings I have acquired a renewed respect and admiration for their brilliance and understanding. The system they gave us is the most moral and just to be found. Today they are viewed as quaint and obsolete. It's too bad more people don't realize how much we need to go "back to the future" in order to fix what's wrong with this country, and not buy into empty rhetoric and bumper sticker politics.

I'm committed to Ron Paul's candidacy and the battle to retake the Republican party, but the Libertarians will surely receive my support and my vote in November should McCain remain the Republican candidate. The two-party system is just too firmly entrenched, so my personal opinion is such that the best chance for success at this stage is to reform (massively, of course) the Republican party.

I know you have tried in vain these many years, but perhaps the rest of America wasn't ready. Perhaps it just wasn't bad enough, as it's much easier to prove yourself when there's eight years of evidence supporting your claims.

One thing is certain. Paul supporters, Libertarians, Constitutionalists...all must work to advance the cause of Liberty and Equality, no matter what banner those ideals fall under, and to reintroduce them to the American consciousness and the political dialogue.

So for that, I'll wish you the best of luck. I'll look forward to seeing more news on their progress, as I'm sure you'll be posting daily.

I will offer one minor critique though, and please don't take this the wrong way. While I respect your position on Evolution, and don't necessarily disagree, you have naturally opened the door for debate on a subject that we both agree shouldn't be a part of the political discourse. Don't ask, don't tell is the best policy, and one that I strictly adhere to. It is a debate between science and religion, not a debate for politics. Government should take neither side.

Ridiculing someone's deeply held beliefs is no way to influence them politically. When Mike Huckabee dropped out of the campaign, we set up welcome sections on the forums to introduce his supporters to our cause. Most of these people were impressed with Paul from the debates, and were curious to learn more. Tolerance, understanding, and a little bit of patience went a long way toward showing them of the harmful policies of their misguided leaders.

So if you believe in individual Liberty and the separation of church and state, you should also believe that noone should be turned away based on religious beliefs, providing they adhere to the separation doctrine.

Most mainstreet Christians are good people led astray while others have basically tuned out because they don't believe in their neo-tent-revivalist Evangelical counterparts. They are truly appalled by what has been done in their names, as many Republicans are appalled at what's been carried out under theirs. They are also quite anxious to make amends, and I'll afford them every opportunity to do so.

Happy Memorial Day!

"You will find that the Libertarians primarily care about one thing and that is dissolving the Federal Income Tax. They will not nominate someone unless they whole heartedly embrace this concept while not proposing any alternative to fund gov't."

You say that like it's a bad thing. Up until 1913, when the federal government at least made a pretense of operating within the limits of the Constitution--with a big exception from 1861 to 1865--the United States got along fine without an income tax. If you eliminate all the programs that are not authorized by the Constitution, you might just find that the federal government doesn't need to fund a two to three trillion dollar budget and user fees and tariffs might just cover those things that aren't reserved to the states.

--

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.-Amendment X

The premise of the LP is to scale back the government to the point of having no need for the IRS. They also want to cancel any welfare for non-citizens which would be as good as a fence any day of the week. We all know that nothing can be abolished or cancelled in one swoop or even in one term of office. We have to first educate the American people to look to themselves for their welfare.

Americans have been spoiled to use Big Daddy for their safety net and many have given up their own education possibilities. The government can't instill this kind of responsibility as they make millions on the stupidity of the masses.

It will take a revolution to get this government out of our lives. They offered the sugar cake and more than half the Americans got addicted to the cake. Only the people can stand independently away from the government and make their own successful lives without Big Daddy.

Yes, I have blamed the religious organizations for removing the independence from Americans. They offer a crutch to lean on rather than an inspiration to succeed.

The time may not be today for a start on the revolution but damnit I'm running out of time. I started early!

A change in our government starts with ideas of returning to what the founders wanted. The politicans have used welfare and perks to get elected. It is time we had politicians who sell something else to get elected. Something like freedom, liberty and American sovereignty.

When I registered to vote in 1953 I did not vote to hand any political leader to take me by the hand and bring me into his domain. I knew and understood the platform and I voted for that. Ike spoke those words of warning about the Industrial Military Complex but who exactly listened to him? We had new leaders who simply ignored this and continued to bring us into one war after another.

What if we had started a third party at that time? How many American soldiers would still be alive? We are never too late to introduce a new movement. It is amazing how many will jump to the conclusion that a third party means the destruction of our current government. The LP is not new, but we found a new voice after listening and reading the voters' concerns.

I have quoted Paine for years as an athority on Liberty. Thank you griff for bringing his words here.

For Defense?

• -Troops in over one hundred countries (for defense?)
• -Military spending constantly increased even thought the cold war ended (for defense?) Mission Accomplished eh?!?
• -Corporate, farm, international, and national subsidies and handouts at an ever increasing rate and cost to taxpayers (remember them?)
• -More agencies, programs, and committees than you can control OR shake a stick at (for what?)
• -Wars (for defense?)
• -Privacy invasion (for defense?)

If the American government got rid of all the above and kept, I repeat KEPT, all the social security, medicare and other personal social programs everyone thinks the libertarians want to destroy, we would have enough money to get rid of the IRS and a few other forms of taxes.

The government simply wants to do too much.

More power to the Libertarians if they see that and want to reign in the excessive abuse and waste in government.

Lastly, Obama, Hillary, and Mccain have their radical ideas and ignore many of the abuses of the D. of C.! So why is the IRS busting concept turn so many people into player haters for the www.LP.org

Scott~

Libertarians = Socially tolerant, fiscally responsible.

______________________________________

'Only an oaf would eat that loaf' KP

"Contemplate the mangled bodies of your countrymen, and then say 'what should be the reward of such sacrifices?' Bid us and our posterity bow the knee, supplicate the friendship and plow, and sow, and reap, to glut the avarice of the men who have let loose on us the dogs of war to riot in our blood and hunt us from the face of the earth? If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom - go from us in peace. We ask not your counsel or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!"

- Samuel Adams (emphasis mine)

Back in the 1960s I read a biography of Samuel Adams right after I finished Atlas Shrugged and it sent me into a mental frenzy of a desire for Liberty. As the LP says, "liberty" is freedom without government.

I think we owe it to the next generation to get this behemoth of a government off our backs. It is time our children are taught responsibility and their parents are taught to demand an academic system in the schools.

Liberty can be passed down from one generation to the next but it takes a little work. I am thrilled with all these comments. thank you!

The Libertarian Party has never;

1. Sent a kid off to war.

2. Imposed an unjust tax.

3. Imprisoned an innocent individual.

While some clamor for the success of elections, policy movement and a general sense of injustice, it should be noted that everyone in ANY third party movement is resisting unrestrained power in our lives that the D's & R's have imposed since the Civil War.

Saying that the LP has failed over the last 30 years is simply wrong. As is the idea that taxation is their only issue. Ideas about gay marriage, the drug war and numerous other policy boondoggles have been reconsidered and re-thought simply because political pressure has been present. Alternative ideas tend to historically come from third parties. The main parties get savvy real quick when they get kicked in the political crotch.

Most people just accept the chore of voting in November and have little idea of the time and effort to organize politically, let alone outside the red and blue boxes. Numerous candidacies by spirited independents have never seen the light of day because of draconian ballot access laws and incredible media bias. That last factor alone has become the impetus for third parties to highlight or seek out Dems and Repubs as candidates. It doesn't always work.

The LPNY was left at the altar twice by Howard Stern and William Weld. Arguably the Greens were damaged by Nader's run in 2000.

The general point is that we shouldn't dismiss third party efforts simply because they cannot win. We should question why the entire political ethos of mankind is locked into an either/or angst. The answer of course is that Madison was deathly afraid of the role of factions and wanted to eliminate political parties with single plurality districts. The practical result was the evolution of two parties whose likihood of winning that plurality was heightened by a unified group. Even Jefferson realized this and had to play along.

Thank you Sandra. I'll try.
OKay, let's take this statement;

"I said that the Libertarian Party has failed to get its message out to the public in a way that casts them as a legitimate party and not a bunch of crackpots that want to eliminate the Income tax."

How does one adequately make the conclusion about a 'legitimate' party ? Simple electoral success ? If that's true, than there are no 'legitimate' parties besides the main two. I tried to run for Congress as a Libertarian and was kicked off the ballot by a 'legitimate' party. Never really got a chance 'cast' myself as anything because the former GOP Congressman was afraid of the 2.5% I polled that June on Zogby. Yet they were 'legitimate' in prosecuting an unjust occupation, inflating the debt and liabilities far into the future and otherwise screwing up the country. Yet I was the one who showed up to a health care forum designed to hijack a free market approach while bad boy Johnny ignored it all together.

Haven't candidates from 'legitimate' parties advocated the Fair Tax as a replacement for the Income Tax ? Mike Huckabee comes to mind . . .

Recasting is not the answer. I can't think of any modern third party who has kept together and been as consistent as the LP. Don't hand me the 'crackpot' line. If anything the ideals have kept the party together despite the disaffection of 'legitimate' party members who yearn to be like and hold the positions that their current parties refuse to recognize or pay anything but lip service to. Know thyself.

Fair electoral practices will not happen or come from the two main parties. Those that choose to fight outside those arenas should not be vilified for attempting to fight.