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September 29, 2008 - 10:32am.

First of all, it's impossible to believe that this is a genuine crises and not an October Surprise Heist created by the Crooks and Liars that have been running our country into the ground for the last eight years. It amazes me that an entire Congress full of blowhards and lawyers, can't find a way to articulate what the hell is going on to the American People. Even Barack, so deft with language, cannot convey what Pelosi, Paulson, Boehner, Reed, Dubyah (well, forget him, I might as well add Palin if I include him),have failed to. Reason? They don't know. Or in the usual authoritarian style, refuse to.
The fact of the matter is, Congress, has a conflict of interest. I don't have a pension, a 401K, over $100,000 in the bank, or investments at risk. But the members of Congress do.
I say we insist that We The People be able to vote on this or NO DEAL. It's clear to most of us, that this is most likely Robbery, and nothing else.
I can see personally, uneducated as I am in high finance, that many common sense solutions are available. $700Billion is a lot of money. Economists, have offered all sorts of solutions. But, we are, and the Congress is, being bullied with fear, for a fast solution.The only reason they give us is that if we don't turn over the last dollars in the coffers, credit will dry up. To me, that sounds like a good idea. Isn't it time to for the whole country to stop getting more credit when we can't afford to buy any more? Credit, is the whole problem in the first place. I say if you don't have money, you can't buy. If that hurts Walmart or Gap or Exxon or the gamblers on Wall Street, so be it. If you got suckered into putting your home at risk so you can go on vacation, or put your kids in private schools, or buy overpriced crap for Christmas, tough.
Now, we're supposed to just what, feel sorry for how hard and long the Leaders and banking committees have had to work for the last few days and based on that, give them what they want? Huh?
Stop the war in Iraq for one. These guys just appropriated billions more for THAT money pit.I've never run a huge complicated business, but I've run a small one or two. And, when I'm not making the kind of money I want to be making because the buyers aren't buying...I don't go to the government and ask them to give me money and continue sinking bucks I don't have into the same losing proposition. First, you try to improve your product, or try another. If that doesn't work, you try to get your money back, being resigned to not getting it all back, but enough to not go under or wind up in debt. AS far as I can see, no one is making that effort at all.
What if banks, made mortgage payments affordable,and stop penalties, and interest rate hikes,rather than foreclosing and winding up with a property they can't sell, and throwing people into an even more unstable economic situation? What if credit card companies do the same?
Imagine if $700 Billion were used to purchase electric and hybrid vehicles or even small fuel efficient ones to sell to Americans so we can stop using so much gas, or invest in public transportation, or green industry training programs, or reopening closed factories and reclaiming America's manufacturing sector?
I know this is unsophisticated as hell, like I said, I'm no financier..but the idea of giving over the treasury so more credit can continue being manipulated, seems insane to me.
The Congress has been intimidated and can't be trusted to make this decision.
The so called rebel Republicans in the House seem to think perpetuating the Insurance business will save the day. Insurance, as far as I'm concerned, should be against the law. This is the perfect opportunity to just let that concept go down the tubes. I'd trust the Mob to come through before today's insurance companies!
So, in my humble opinion, I say we demand to be able to vote on this giveaway. I say we threaten to not pay our bills, or taxes, credit cards, car payments, none of it, if we are not allowed to make this decision. The Congress are self involved with fear of losing their own wealth.
Meanwhile, it seems that the very merging that created the too big to fail situation, is perpetuating. Now we have TWO giant banks too big to fail. I don't see any end to it.
I say, NO DEAL. America says NO DEAL.Since Congress is not listening, demand a vote.Enough is enough.

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I think that is a brilliant

I think that is a brilliant idea. According to what I'm watching, the House is divided on this bail out. Could we get it on the November ballot?

Malcolm

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We did it about impeaching

We did it about impeaching Bill Clinton in a matter of days it seems. How tough would it be? Frankly, there are polls all over the web and newspapers with ample evidence as to how the American people feel about this, and it's a resounding NO.It would also remove party politics from the issue.

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I don't trust the voting

I don't trust the voting system to put this to a ballot. 80% saying NO and Congress, the President, and the Media still insist it's necessary and is going to happen. Talk about a clear mandate and we are being totally ignored.

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Put it to a vote? Try to

Put it to a vote? Try to get it on the ballot in November?

I refer you to the Constitution of the United States of America, which says, in essence, that as a republic we elect people to make these decisions for us.

There is no Constitutional mechanism for such a vote. And if there were we would be worse off for it. Our Founding Fathers were not stupid people. They knew that the rule of a 51 percent majority of the citizens was nothing more than mob rule, a golden opportunity to trample on the rights of the other 49 percent with absolute impunity.

If you examine carefully the recent history of voter initiatives you will see really terrible law being enacted. Take Colorado's term limits initiative and the so-called Taxpayers' Bill of Rights (TABOR). Both of these popularly enacted laws have been abysmal failures, and many if not most of the county and city governments have used the opt-out procedures built into those two bills to do exactly that: opt out of participation.

Many jurisdictions found that imposing term limits threw out of office people who had dedicated their lives to public service, people who were damned good at what they did, people who needed to be in office to prevent the staff members and the lobbyists from completely ruining local government. As for TABOR many opted out because they could not function as a government with the restrictions imposed by the law.

People who plunk for true democracy are well advised to remember that sooner or later they will be in the 49 percent over whom the tyranny of the majority runs rough-shod. It might work in a small town in Vermont, but once you get to the point where not all the voters know one another then it's just an opportunity to screw over someone without repercussion (until the time you happen to be in the minority).

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oh the old republic

oh the old republic argument. the MOB is now the middle class, we have progressed since 1776. I didn't suggest putting this vote on the ballot in november. I suggested an immediate vote. I don't care for ballot initiatives at all, and don't think they should be on presidential ballots.the distrust of george bush is why the american people are balking at this giveaway to the market. my objection is based on having read the opinions of many economists that seemed to feel there was no reason for it, that there were other things we could do to solve the problem.the very wording of paulson's request raised the hackles of everyone immediately. the response was NO. and, it was followed by zero reassurance that it would work! we are witnessing the inevitable fall of empire, the democracy was lost in 2000. history repeats itself.

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I was responding to what you

I was responding to what you said:

"I say we insist that We The People be able to vote on this or NO DEAL."

If you meant something cryptic it escaped me.

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In that case I don't know

In that case I don't know what you were going on and on about either.As far as I'm concerned, the Republicans with control over Legislative houses and Executive for the last eight years has been exactly what you described: the majority being pretty damn tyrannical. As far as voting no to the bailout, which was my main point, Hoover bailed out the markets before the elections, and it didn't work..Roosevelt came in and bought up mortgages to keep them from foreclosure and the owners got 30 year mortgages at affordable rates that were paid to the government. He also nationalized a couple failing banks. The Dow going down even a few thousand points is not the end of the world. But Bush and Paulson are making it seem that way, and with this crowd, you can assume the worst. I believe and so do a lot of people that this is another shock and awe, and designed to confuse and divide and put fear in everyone, possibly not only our country.All I deciphered from your comment was antique Tory government interpretations of the Constitution, and I tried to refute that thinking with my defense of my position. At any rate, enough congress people did the job for whatever their reasons, so it all worked out, so far. Maybe tonight Bush will do one of his dictatorial takes on the Constitution and take $700Billion from the Treasury by executive order. What time's the next crises?

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"What if banks, made

"What if banks, made mortgage payments affordable,and stop penalties, and interest rate hikes,rather than foreclosing and winding up with a property they can't sell, and throwing people into an even more unstable economic situation? What if credit card companies do the same?"

Because they are blinded by their greed.

NO DEAL!

They are trying to extort the taxpayers.

-- Kent Shaw

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Moveon.org's ad on McCain

Moveon.org's ad on McCain and the bailout is on tv now. You can view it here.

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Thanks Hal. That's a good

Thanks Hal. That's a good ad..every time McCain says "my friends" at rallies, it will sound right insincere won't it?

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If I knew anything about

If I knew anything about economics I'd have written something on the bailout bill itself.

What I do know about how Congress works is that on bills this important, with substantial support on both sides of the aisle, rarely if ever do they come to a vote when the outcome ends up being this close.

The leaders on both sides make sure what bill will pass by talking to objecting members before the vote. If changes in the bill are necessary to assure it passes, those changes are made.

I agree with the pundits that overall this is a failure of Congressional leadership. A bill to get us out of this financial disaster, not necessarily THIS exact bill, should have been passed.

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Like a bill to open the Fed

Like a bill to open the Fed to Congressional oversight? The other day, when Ron Paul was questioning Bernanke, he asked where the authority came from to do the things he does. Bernanke answered correctly when he said the Congress handed hime that authority with the passage od the Federal Reserve Act. Congress needs to take that authority back.

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Griff, fortunately people

Griff, fortunately people have finally grown suspicious of government.
The vote for the Iraq War and the Patriot Act were rammed through congress and in the case of the Patriot Act, legislators didn't have the opportunity to even review before they voted. A no vote was to risk being labeled un patriotic.
Speaking of un patriotic, Pelosi dragged out that term.
Pelosi on one hand rails the failed administration and she is the hero saving the day. Unfortunately, she couldn't just introduce the bill. So much for bi partisanship. She had to nail Bush. While Pelosi and friends ragged on the GOP, she failed to mention 133 dems who refused to vote for this bill.
It wasn't a clean bill. They couldn't introduce one bill to "save America" without porking it up. If this was such a necessity, why on earth couldn't they offer a pork free bill?
Profits going to the beleaguered ACORN? Give me a break. If there is money to be made for the US, why not use it to retire our debt? Doesn't that make sense?
I realize common sense hasn't had a place in our government for a number of years. I believe it is time for the citizens of this nation to demand fiscal responsibility. We need to be participating in the process. I am so very happy the people have spoken

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