Toll plans should be eliminated primarily because they are not cost-effective, not necessary, and the people of Texas don't want them.

Amen to that. Add to it that hideous wall idea and I'll give you a Hallelujah!

I find terrible is now we have to pay to use a road that we paid to build originally.

But in typical lie, steal and cheat Repubnlican fashion, Rick Perry is selling off Texas one piece at a time!

Btw, I went to school with a P Stern. What part of Texas are you from?

Mr or Ms Stern:

You say some interesting things in your blog but I don't see where you support some of them.

"The only good toll road is no toll road."

In Colorado, two interesting things happened with toll roads. Years ago there was a need for a highway from Denver to Boulder (to give the liberals a place to run to I guess). So the state borrowed money to build the road, with the tolls to pay off the bonds. You may choose not to believe this, but the day the bonds were paid off they took out the tollbooths.

The other thing that happened was the construction of a beltway that is supposed to gird Denver. A good part of it is built, I understand, with private funds. No tax money. And supposedly, when the cost of building has been recouped, the tolls revert to enough to pay upkeep and a reasonable rate of return on the company's capital investment.

There are other roads that traverse the area, but this one is highly effective in getting you around Denver instead of through it. People do not need to use it, they choose to use it. As to the costs for commercial vehicles, they, like motorists, don't have to use it. It would be a business decision whether it's more cost effective to use the toll road or to try to drive I-25 or I-70 through the heart of Denver, which is pretty slow during rush hour.

Bottom line may well be that you the consumer are going to pay the toll or pay for the time of the driver. Certainly the business is going to strive to choose the more cost-effective method. Judging from maps, Pennsylvania and Ohio Turnpikes, on the other hand, are pretty much a monopoly for most east-west traffic. To my mind those should have become non-toll roads when the construction costs were paid off, but the electorate in those two jurisdictions apparently think otherwise.

"(i)n addition, the implementation of toll roads generally cause other issues or problems, including noise / environmental pollution, increase in traffic accidents and fatalities, decrease in adjacent property values, etc."

Why would this differ from a road paid for and supported by tax money?

As to Texans not wanting the toll roads, then they have to elect people who will oppose those roads. Same thing for eminent domain. If you don't want your government taking property then elect people who will change the laws that allow eminent domain seizure. That's what should have happened with the case in Connecticut, but everyone wanted to rush off to court and spend millions of dollars carrying the case to the Supreme Court, which ruled that the law was there and government was entitled to use it. What a shock!

But what is going to happen where there is no seizure law? Want a new road? Tough noogies. I have this sliver of land and I am not selling it no matter what the price. New school? NIMBY. Parks? Yeah, right. When Beelzebub sells sno-cones. Widen a road? Bwa ha ha. No one is taking a strip off my road frontage. IMHO eminent domain is a vital part of government that needs to be wielded carefully. However, a taking even partly for private gain should be allowed only rarely, if at all, and then only with a vote of the electorate to support it.

Churlpat -- a plutarch by any name is still a plutarch

You made an interesting point about your Denver tolls being taken out after the road was "paid for". You also mention that the state "borrowed" money.

It is VERY rare that a state will remove tolls even after the road has been paid for.

Aside from your example, I can think of only 2 others:

One was for the Southern State Parkway on Long Island in New York City, which removed tolls more than 20 years ago.

The other was a short toll road in Dallas, Texas which occurred more recently.

Most toll roads remain forever and are an infinite tax burden for taxpayers of that state.

However, one point I made in the blog remains true even for your toll road:

Toll roads are one of the more cost-ineffective methods of providing tax dollars for the building and maintenance of the roadways. Tolls also remain as a regressive form of taxation that hurts those who can least afford the toll taxes.

Nice piece. I always avoid the Ohio Turnpike when I'm traveling.

The defense for our Turnpike is that we are a rust belt state and the roads fall apart every year from ice and snow. The Ohio Turnpike is in excellent shape and does have work performed more often than the other available routes which are quite often full of ripples and pot holes.

The Ohio Turnpike is run by the Ohio Turnpike Commission. And even though it is a part of the Interstate Highway System, it requires no federal funds for it's maintenance.

There is some discussion about leasing the Ohio Turnpike out to private business, but I don't think that will fly here and so I have not been following it.

If they insist on turning over public assets to private groups then we should insist the private groups are non-profit and that any additional income generated would go back to the citizens as a general tax refund. Or perhaps refund overages to users of the automated Quickpass or Expresspay type of services. They know who uses it, so they know who paid what and who would qualify for a refund.

Hey Pollchecker,

Perry won reelection with 39 percent of the total votes. Most other states he would have had a run-off election, but NOT in Texas where they still maintain some "good ol' boy" laws.

There's no recall law either to get rid of that con artist!

Not any since I didn't grow up in Texas. Sorry.

The thing about the TTC, of course, is that it would be a new transportation corridor, not just a road but rail, utilities, etc. A quarter-mile wide... think of that... as I know you have. It would be built by and operated by Cintras, a Spanish consortium, with profits leaving the good old USA. Another half-million acres auctioned off to foreign interests without adequate public debate. Rick Perry is probably real proud... he must have either a helluva Cintras job lined up, or more likely, a position with the ruling banking class. He may even become President!

Here above the Red River, at least, we've been able to deflect the TTC I-35 corridor via legislative action, creating an Oklahoma land lock for the "Mexican Port" in Kansas City, so now only the TTC I-69 corridor is being actively pursued to Texarkana and up thru Arkansas.

As for eminent domain, the principle is firmly establishd in US constitutional case law, so whether the Texas constitution or Texas statutes would prevail is uncertain, especially if federal funding and its onerous strictures came to bear on the problem. Can you say public/private partnership? At least many, many local governments in the path of the TTC are beginning to wage an effective battle. Good luck folks.

I might note that, by law, Oklahoma toll roads are to cease collecting tolls when the toll road "system" is fully paid for... but somehow there's always a new stretch of road coming on line to keep those revenues flowing.

"Public/Private Partnerships" are nothing more than fascism lite.

-- Kent Shaw

You are partially correct, Churlpat, in that regular roads also may weaken the values of adjacent homes; however, it is at a much lower percentage than toll roads do. It's logical. Look at the difference between a 'free' road and a toll road and the different types of traffic each attracts.

Toll roads may weaken even an adjacent business area, especially if the roadway is an overhead.

Often a toll road will cause more traffic on other adjacent roadways that people drive on to escape paying the tolls.

There is a lot of data on all this you can Google or Yahoo.

A road is a road is a road is a road.

Sorry. I could not stop myself.

These appear to be more opinions than facts.

Churlpat -- a plutarch by any name is still a plutarch

That's such a silly comment, Churlpat, I expected more of you.

Look at any large city that maintains toll roads and tell me they are successful and cost-effective.

I'll be interested in viewing YOUR facts proving that point.